We have resigned

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those of us who were the Civil Rights workers referred to by Southern segregationists as "Northern Agitators" (one of the kinder of many terminologies for us) were WELL aware of the shortcomings of the North with respect to racial bigotry. A Southern black once told me, shortly AFTER the Civil Rights Act was passed, ending segregation once and for all — "Given the choice between dealing with a Northern liberal and a Southern cracker, I’d rather take my chance with the cracker. We KNOW his position; the Northerner often masks his bigotry with outward liberalism." Well of course he said that Craig, racism is at the very heart of liberalism in America. The man was talking right at your face and you didn’t get who he was talking about. No. He was talking about racists who PRETEND to be liberals.

You see Craig, you completely missed his point. What the Black man was telling you is that he knew that you are at least as racist as the Cracker. The only difference is that you call your racism "science" and the Cracker is just another ignorant Methodist. I.e. — PSEUDO-liberals. Racism is ANATHEMA to **actual** liberals.

Well now, from a Classical perspective, Republicans are liberals and Democrats are statists (conservatives). Form your postings Craig, I can see you are halfway there, but there is still a lot of denial in your heart. Too bad the same can’t be said for today’s breed of "conservatives."

Being a conservative and from a Family that are the enforcers of the Thirteenth Amendment, I can tell you that what you write is part of the "discussion" Colin Powell says "America is not ready for". You’ll note that many thousands of Blacks chose to join my Family and are Tarvers today.

Response:

Just about any other Christian denomination is better than the new gay Episcopal church. They have become a farce.

Nope. it’s bigots like YOU who are the farce.

Response:

<snip Those of us who were the Civil Rights workers referred to by Southern segregationists as "Northern Agitators" (one of the kinder of many terminologies for us) were WELL aware of the shortcomings of the North with respect to racial bigotry. A Southern black once told me, shortly AFTER the civil Rights Act was passed, ending segregation once and for all — "Given the choice between dealing with a Northern liberal and a Southern cracker, I’d rather take my chance with the cracker. We KNOW his position; the Northerner often masks his bigotry with outward liberalism."

Well of course he said that Craig, racism is at the very heart of liberalism in America. The man was talking right at your face and you didn’t get who he was talking about.

Response:

No. He was talking about racists who PRETEND to be liberals. I.e. — PSEUDO-liberals. Racism is ANATHEMA to **actual** liberals. Too bad the same can’t be said for today’s breed of "conservatives."

Response:

After having been born in the Episcopal church (cradle Episcopalians) we…my whole immediate family has given a form of resignation to our church. We have supported it during the years not only with pledges but with many extra gifts from pipe organs to a new roof. It is sad we have to leave but we need to find a church that follows God’s word and law not someone or some group that has its own interpretation. We will now be searching but some of my family states they will no longer enter any church. Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. Well the Episcopal Church is no longer dying it is dead.

True. Good for you. Just about any other Christian denomination is better than the new gay Episcopal church. They have become a farce. At least Robinson could of said yes I am gay but I will be a good Bishop. Instead the fools voted for him after he went on about his gay sexuality with his lover celebrated Christ and Christianity’s tolerance. He is not a gay bishop, he is a gay activist masquerading as a bishop. Satan’s little helper.

Response:

Not at all. He’d still have been a bigot, but would probably would have kept his mouth shut there, to have avoided being laughed out of the state. In the early ’60s, he’d have had safety in numbers, in the South, from huge numbers of like-minded bigots. In Idaho, he’d have been immediately recognized as a total fruitcake. And thus, wouldn’t have been capable of harming anyone’s rights.

1. In the late ’70s there was a good deal of tension in Boston because an historically Irish neighborhood there was being "invaded" by blacks. This was the episode that got Jimmy Carter in trouble for expressing sympathy with the Bostonians who wanted to maintain the "ethnic purity" of there neighborhoods. Rioting broke out in Boston and was reported nightly on the national news. I recall one white man from that neighborhood in Boston saying into the CBS camera that the solution to Boston’s problems was to "kill all the niggers." 2. A friend of mine from upstate New York, when he was living in Oak Park, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago), opined to me that his neighborhood had it’s streets set up to keep "the spades" out. He objected to calling blacks "niggers" but felt that "spades" was a good enough term. 3. When I lived in Champaign, Illinois, a young lady I knew was glad that she didn’t have a lot of "niggers" living around her. 4. When I first went North, I was amazed at the huge sections of Northern cities that were set aside for the various ethnic groups. Ethnic grouping of real estate in the South traditionally went block by block. I note with dismay that as Northerners move into the South they bring their "ethnic purity" mentality with them and they are constructing racial ghettos in towns like Raleigh. Anyyhow, a friend of mine from Michigan said that when he first arrived in Memphis he found it difficult to find the "right" (he meant "white") part of town. He couldn’t go by street name. He had to go to the address and look at the immediate neighbors. But fortunately he found a lily-white neighborhood in which to live. All of these folk were native Northerners, most living in the North. They conceived their racial hatreds up there and readily verbalized them without blushing. No part of the country has a lock on virtue or vice. While it’s perfectly accurate to state that bigotry was CODIFIED in the South, to our disgrace, I question the proposition that folks elsewhere in the country are a) less likely to be bigoted or b) less likely to vocalize their bigotry. "All we like sheep have gone astray. We have turned every one into his own way and come short of the glory of God." Or some such. — From all sedicion and pryvie conspiracie, from the tyrannye of the Bysshop of Rome, and al hys detestable enormities, from al false doctryne and heresy, from hardnes of hearte, and contempte of thy worde and commaundement. Good lord, deliver us. from the Litany, 1549 BCP

Response:

of there neighborhoods…

Scilicet "their." — From all sedicion and pryvie conspiracie, from the tyrannye of the Bysshop of Rome, and al hys detestable enormities, from al false doctryne and heresy, from hardnes of hearte, and contempte of thy worde and commaundement. Good lord, deliver us. from the Litany, 1549 BCP

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not at all. He’d still have been a bigot, but would probably would have kept his mouth shut there, to have avoided being laughed out of the state. In the early ’60s, he’d have had safety in numbers, in the South, from huge numbers of like-minded bigots. In Idaho, he’d have been immediately recognized as a total fruitcake. And thus, wouldn’t have been capable of harming anyone’s rights. 1. In the late ’70s there was a good deal of tension in Boston because an historically Irish neighborhood there was being "invaded" by blacks. This was the episode that got Jimmy Carter in trouble for expressing sympathy with the Bostonians who wanted to maintain the "ethnic purity" of their neighborhoods. Rioting broke out in Boston and was reported nightly on the national news. I recall one white man from that neighborhood in Boston saying into the CBS camera that the solution to Boston’s problems was to "kill all the niggers." 2. A friend of mine from upstate New York, when he was living in Oak Park, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago), opined to me that his neighborhood had it’s streets set up to keep "the spades" out. He objected to calling blacks "niggers" but felt that "spades" was a good enough term. 3. When I lived in Champaign, Illinois, a young lady I knew was glad that she didn’t have a lot of "niggers" living around her. 4. When I first went North, I was amazed at the huge sections of Northern cities that were set aside for the various ethnic groups. Ethnic grouping of real estate in the South traditionally went block by block. I note with dismay that as Northerners move into the South they bring their "ethnic purity" mentality with them and they are constructing racial ghettos in towns like Raleigh. Anyyhow, a friend of mine from Michigan said that when he first arrived in Memphis he found it difficult to find the "right" (he meant "white") part of town. He couldn’t go by street name. He had to go to the address and look at the immediate neighbors. But fortunately he found a lily-white neighborhood in which to live. All of these folk were native Northerners, most living in the North. They conceived their racial hatreds up there and readily verbalized them without blushing. No part of the country has a lock on virtue or vice. While it’s perfectly accurate to state that bigotry was CODIFIED in the South, to our disgrace, I question the proposition that folks elsewhere in the country are a) less likely to be bigoted or b) less likely to vocalize their bigotry. "All we like sheep have gone astray. We have turned every one into his own way and come short of the glory of God." Or some such.

Those of us who were the Civil Rights workers referred to by Southern segregationists as "Northern Agitators" (one of the kinder of many terminologies for us) were WELL aware of the shortcomings of the North with respect to racial bigotry. A Southern black once told me, shortly AFTER the civil Rights Act was passed, ending segregation once and for all — "Given the choice between dealing with a Northern liberal and a Southern cracker, I’d rather take my chance with the cracker. We KNOW his position; the Northerner often masks his bigotry with outward liberalism." Racial bigotry existed throughout America rampantly in the ’50s and early ’60s (and before), and theat was a generally-known fact to most people, regardless of where they lived. Our primary goal back then, as activists, was to eliminate the most OVERT manifestations of that bigotry. In that, we succeeded spectacularly — blacks and white egalitarians working hand toward that very worthy victory. In my Idaho example, the segregationists probably always would have been a laughingstock to most people. The more urban the Northern environment, the more likely racial bigots are to find kindred spirits. Even in places as small (compared to Boston), as Champaign, Illinois. Racial bigotry still exists, unfortunately, and there almost surely will ALWAYS be a percentage of people who are abjectly ignorant enough to be bigots. One of every 50 people has an IQ of 60 or less. When dealing with limited mentalities, it’s not surprising to see gullibility covarying with that factor. And their more limited capability to reason things through makes them prime candidates for hatemongering Anti-Choicers, racists, homophones, and the RRR cult’s vicious leadership. Not everyone having limited mental capabilities, of course, falls for this (thankfully!!). A good, compensating dose of common sense, and/or good upbrininging by egalitarian parents and/or teachers spares huge numbers of them! If that weren’t the case, things could be far worse

Response:

… Had a segregationist chosen to leave the South in the early ’60s, fair-minded people would have welcomed that slight decrease in the forces of bigotry… So a segregationist in Alabama, say, is part of the "forces of bigotry" but the same individual in, say, Idaho is not?

Response:

… Had a segregationist chosen to leave the South in the arly ’60s, fair-minded people would have welcomed that slight decrease in the forces of bigotry…

So a segregationist in Alabama, say, is part of the "forces of bigotry" but the same individual in, say, Idaho is not? Hmmmmmm. You need to explain that to the Christian Identity people in the northwest US. They’ll be pleased to know that they are no longer classed as bigots. — From all sedicion and pryvie conspiracie, from the tyrannye of the Bysshop of Rome, and al hys detestable enormities, from al false doctryne and heresy, from hardnes of hearte, and contempte of thy worde and commaundement. Good lord, deliver us. from the Litany, 1549 BCP

Response:

While I find myself at the complete opposite view of you on these matters — I sincerely believe the Lord is doing a new thing in this communion and I find it wonderful, if uncharted — I am very sad to read your post. I believe that in these days, one of the church’s most urgent missions is to provide support for her people…and you obviously don’t feel supported, you feel abandoned and alienated. I’m sorry. In an era of complacency, the church was probably called to prophetic wisdom. Now that complacency would be a nice change of pace, frankly, I think providing strength and solace may be a larger mission than challenge. Having said all that, I still think the General Convention’s deputies and bishops have listened to the Holy Spirit, been fed with holy scripture, and engaged God in holy prayer, to arrive at the decisions they’ve arrived at. While I hurt that members of your family say they will no longer enter any church, regardless of denomination, I know also that God does not give up on people and that, once they have known the Father’s love, they eventually must return to it to know wholeness again. And they will. I’ll pray for this. And that you’ll know God’s comfort, wherever your faith takes you. It’s a sad irony that those who have placed others outside the church for so long now feel a need to place themselves outside that same church. Perhaps it’s unavoidable as the Spirit works within and without organized religion. Perhaps we’ll all see each other eventually as brother and sisters in Christ, regardless of our denominations, sexual orientations, or cultures. Until then, Godspeed and God bless… –D

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been born in the Episcopal church (cradle Episcopalians) we…my whole immediate family has given a form of resignation to our church. We have supported it during the years not only with pledges but with many extra gifts from pipe organs to a new roof. It is sad we have to leave but we need to find a church that follows God’s word and law not someone or some group that has its own interpretation. We will now be searching but some of my family states they will no longer enter any church. Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. Well the Episcopal Church is no longer dying it is dead.

Response:

LOL!!!! Don’t let the door… I’ll 2nd that!!!

You rejoice in another’s sorrow? Where is your Cristian charity? Well, rejoice in my sorrow as well – as one who yearns to see the Church reunited, my heart breaks seeing the hatred the "tolerant" show for the "bigoted". Not everyone who disagrees with you hates you. I understand when you lash out at remarks that are not Christ-like, but this poster made no such remarks.

Response:

As one who was in the gallery at the House of Deputies and who listened to the debates, what struck me was the emphasis from some of the "no" voters on "my" church and "my" family and "my" faith. It sounded just as negligent of larger commmunion than some of the "yes" voters. MaryO The other thing that was noted by some press as well, was the remarkable level of restraint on both sides after the vote. There was no applause in either house–thanks be to God. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After having been born in the Episcopal church (cradle Episcopalians) we…my whole immediate family has given a form of resignation to our church. We have supported it during the years not only with pledges but with many extra gifts from pipe organs to a new roof. It is sad we have to leave but we need to find a church that follows God’s word and law not someone or some group that has its own interpretation. We will now be searching but some of my family states they will no longer enter any church. Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. Well the Episcopal Church is no longer dying it is dead. Go in peace to love and serve the Lord!

Response:

Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. LOL!!!! Don’t let the door… I’ll 2nd that!!! That is a rather flippant response to give to a Christian who breaks fellowship because he can’t tolerate your sins.

You might have had a point, except that there’s no credible evidence that sins were involved.

Response:

LOL!!!! Don’t let the door… I’ll 2nd that!!! You rejoice in another’s sorrow?

Nope. MOST people would have no trouble understanding that we simply welcome a Christian body that is as free as possible of totally-unnecessary and uncalled-for mindless and hateful bigotry.

Response:

Isn’t that the respionse one would expect from a hate-filled bigot? Steve Hayes http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm

Response:

Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. LOL!!!! Don’t let the door… Isn’t that the respionse one would expect from a hate-filled bigot?

Not at all. Had a segregationist chosen to leave the South in the arly ’60s, fair-minded people would have welcomed that slight decrease in the forces of bigotry. SAME thing here.

Response:

I read your letter, knowing your pain from another perspective. I have, personally never left a church. I have been disfellowshipped from them, not really for moral reasons or sin but because I got in the way. That aside I can understand the pain. It is like loosing an arm. In my life I have been burned (third degree burns over 40% of my body), have arthritis, kidney stones, glaucoma and so on. Nothing even comes close to the spiritual pain of leaving fellowship, being asked to leave or leaving. It leaves one so empty and saddened. My relationships with my friends will never be the same, if I can even ever have a relationship with them. I am truly sorry for your loss. I think there will be many more over this issue. As to your last statement I change one thing, I am no longer dying I am dead. But I can be resurrected again. That is truly the only hope I have. That God will resurrect me. I hope he will do the same with your Church. Brian

Response:

God’s speed oh ye of little faith may the grass be greener.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – says… Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. LOL!!!! Don’t let the door… I’ll 2nd that!!!

That is a rather flippant response to give to a Christian who breaks fellowship because he can’t tolerate your sins.

Response:

Although I support the GC’s controversial moves, I am saddened to hear this. There really does need to be a balance maintained within the Church. If many of the traditional believers go and are replaced by their opposition, then the changes that they decry will accelerate. Heresy is the emphasis of one truth to the exclusion of another. Both the conservatives and liberals are needed to round off each others excesses. Where ever you do decide to go, may God’s grace follow you. Pax Christi Vobiscum. — You can’t catch breath in a bottle; and you can’t pin it down with paper and ink; God’s living Word dances behind the words of the writers. — Joe (Zayton) in alt.bible

Response:

Go in peace to love and serve the Lord!

Response:

Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss.

LOL!!!! Don’t let the door…

Response:

says… Thanks to the bishops for driving my family away. By the way 37 other families have also estranged themselves or removed themselves from the church and this is not the only one facing such loss. LOL!!!! Don’t let the door…

I’ll 2nd that!!!

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