Good and Bad

Question:

Stuff that Al … get some and flog it to poorly equipped friends and family:P Failing that lace your coffee with the stuff and go and attempt to masturbate furiously with whatever appendage you still have good motor control of If both your hands stop working are you going to get the "Prince mod" done? That’s where they take out a couple of vertebrae so you can blow yourself Failing that .. stick some in your eyes and you’ll look well ‘ard I’ll get me coat. Patrick

Response:

I’m deaf, so i didn’t hear those comments. Oh, dear me, news posts get read not heard! i must be brain-damaged by all that low-carbing (sarcastic comment, in case you didn’t notice) i am still paying for all of those years of poor control. Serves me right, no complaints. i am usually too busy smiling to have time for moaning. BE WARNED, TYPE 1s. Get OFF the premix, get OFF the Insulatard. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Patrick

Response:

hey….. i see lots of good in your bad news list!! the A1c is probably in the lab reference range for ‘normal’ did you check for that??

European Diabetes Policy Group says HbA1c should be 6.2 or less. Besides, my last one was 5.7, and the one before that was 5.95, so i have gone in the wrong direction. HDL looks great

EDPG again says HDL is ok, but i have had 1.7 before (but only on beef insulin and your excellent list of veg– now there is no surprise) LDL…… well…. i hear you weight loss….. simply fantabulous!!!!! keep on keeping on!!!

No, Kate, I am 5′10, so 54.7 kilos is dangerous. My doc, my dsn, and most importantly, me, are agreed that 60 kilos is the minimum target. (64 is the maximum) why the liver panel test need? are you taking a statin med??

i have 1800 cals per day, and use about 1650, so weight ought to go up. Skin is slightly yellow, and though i forget the bilirubin number, it was well out of range. No statins. and the lipodystrophy……. move the shot at least 1 inch from the last shot to ensure it’s a month before you return to that site… for less lipodystrophy…….

Yeah, i hear you, and i ought to know better. Complacency strikes again! i would probably be indifferent to all of this, but i don’t think i care enough lol take care,

Thank you, i shall certainly do that — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – kate Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart rotfl I was told i could have Viagra or Alpostradil (sp?) if i wanted. Since i am not in a relationship i declined. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

i think you may well be right. If i heard Maggie B (my dsn) aright, the weight loss is the main reason she suspects hyperthyroidism. Also slight hyperactivity, and dry skin, but hair is fine. Why did they want a liver function – do they suspect anything going on, or is it just that time of year?

They do suspect a problem — see my post to Kate, but also autumn is when they do all the lot for me. i had a flu jab on Saturday morning, podiatry emergency follow-up today, six-monthly podiatry in a couple of weeks, annual lung function in six weeks, etc. I also have an appointment with the diabetes nutritionist again — two-and-a-half years since i saw her. It will make a change for her, putting somebody’s weight UP, instead of down. On Wednesday in two days i got to see the phlebotomist again. They have all got to know me by first name now!! And I do like the good news! : )

Yeah, it breaks the monotony doesn’t it — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nicky.

Response:

Alan, Bet the weight loss and the hyperthyroidism is related, so when you sort out the thyroid, the weight should ease up too. Why did they want a liver function – do they suspect anything going on, or is it just that time of year? And I do like the good news! : ) Nicky. — HgBA1C 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/82/72 1g Metformin, 75mg Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

hey….. i see lots of good in your bad news list!! the A1c is probably in the lab reference range for ‘normal’ did you check for that?? HDL looks great LDL…… well…. i hear you weight loss….. simply fantabulous!!!!! keep on keeping on!!! why the liver panel test need? are you taking a statin med?? and the lipodystrophy……. move the shot at least 1 inch from the last shot to ensure it’s a month before you return to that site… for less lipodystrophy……. take care, kate — Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey….. i see lots of good in your bad news list!! the A1c is probably in the lab reference range for ‘normal’ did you check for that?? HDL looks great LDL…… well…. i hear you weight loss….. simply fantabulous!!!!! keep on keeping on!!! why the liver panel test need? are you taking a statin med?? and the lipodystrophy……. move the shot at least 1 inch from the last shot to ensure it’s a month before you return to that site… for less lipodystrophy……. take care, kate —

Hi Alan I’m with Kate there on the good news, but I do also sympathise with the other bits. But the attitude shows in your comment to Patrick: "i am still paying for all of those years of poor control. Serves me right, no complaints. i am usually too busy smiling to have time for moaning." Keep smiling mate, even if sometimes it’s difficult to do so with gritted teeth. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

– — Fester T1 – 28u Lantus and as much Novorapid as the meter says. Dx 1993, Hba1c 6.1%. Cholesterol 3.9

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart rotfl I was told i could have Viagra or Alpostradil (sp?) if i wanted. Since i am not in a relationship i declined. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Stuff that Al … get some and flog it to poorly equipped friends and family:P Failing that lace your coffee with the stuff and go and attempt to masturbate furiously with whatever appendage you still have good motor control of If both your hands stop working are you going to get the "Prince mod" done? That’s where they take out a couple of vertebrae so you can blow yourself Failing that .. stick some in your eyes and you’ll look well ‘ard I’ll get me coat. I’m deaf, so i didn’t hear those comments. Oh, dear me, news posts get read not heard! i must be brain-damaged by all that low-carbing (sarcastic comment, in case you didn’t notice) i am still paying for all of those years of poor control. Serves me right, no complaints. i am usually too busy smiling to have time for moaning. BE WARNED, TYPE 1s. Get OFF the premix, get OFF the Insulatard. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Patrick

hehe .. yes i noticed, i’m not sure i believe all that twaddle about low carb either … then again we’re in charge of our diabetes not them so it matters not.

Response:

A long time ago, at least 20 months, i posted an URL saying, with scientific evidence, that more than 60 gms of carb per meal would eventually cause brain damage. Probably take some finding on groups.google, but it is there. i remember Jackie mum of Sasha commenting. As for ADA commenting, the US has a population with 60% of people obese! So i for one will discount most of their dietary advice — i go to the University of South Australia website for the more sensible bit. No doubt the upsidedown Alan will feel flattered by that. He gets good results by standing on his head in comparison to us lot lol — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

– — Fester T1 – 28u Lantus and as much Novorapid as the meter says. Dx 1993, Hba1c 6.1%. Cholesterol 3.9

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart rotfl I was told i could have Viagra or Alpostradil (sp?) if i wanted. Since i am not in a relationship i declined. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Stuff that Al … get some and flog it to poorly equipped friends and family:P Failing that lace your coffee with the stuff and go and attempt to masturbate furiously with whatever appendage you still have good motor control of If both your hands stop working are you going to get the "Prince mod" done? That’s where they take out a couple of vertebrae so you can blow yourself Failing that .. stick some in your eyes and you’ll look well ‘ard I’ll get me coat. I’m deaf, so i didn’t hear those comments. Oh, dear me, news posts get read not heard! i must be brain-damaged by all that low-carbing (sarcastic comment, in case you didn’t notice) i am still paying for all of those years of poor control. Serves me right, no complaints. i am usually too busy smiling to have time for moaning. BE WARNED, TYPE 1s. Get OFF the premix, get OFF the Insulatard. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Patrick hehe .. yes i noticed, i’m not sure i believe all that twaddle about low carb either … then again we’re in charge of our diabetes not them so it matters not. A long time ago, at least 20 months, i posted an URL saying, with scientific evidence, that more than 60 gms of carb per meal would eventually cause brain damage. Probably take some finding on groups.google, but it is there. i remember Jackie mum of Sasha commenting. As for ADA commenting, the US has a population with 60% of people obese! So i for one will discount most of their dietary advice — i go to the University of South Australia website for the more sensible bit. No doubt the upsidedown Alan will feel flattered by that. He gets good results by standing on his head in comparison to us lot lol — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est

I suspect my average carb intake per meal is a lot less than 60g .. in fact i know it is, i think it’s about 40 for breakfast .. about 60 for lunch and about 45 for tea. Only if i’m doing something physically exerting do i eat more but i tend to snack as i’m working rather than pigging out in preparation as the BG spikes are just too high otherwise. I’ve only just got in from work and am off to bed …. if i don’t go to bed i’ll fall asleep right here

Response:

So the diets work better if we eat while we stand on our heads? DaveT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart rotfl I was told i could have Viagra or Alpostradil (sp?) if i wanted. Since i am not in a relationship i declined. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Stuff that Al … get some and flog it to poorly equipped friends and family:P Failing that lace your coffee with the stuff and go and attempt to masturbate furiously with whatever appendage you still have good motor control of If both your hands stop working are you going to get the "Prince mod" done? That’s where they take out a couple of vertebrae so you can blow yourself Failing that .. stick some in your eyes and you’ll look well ‘ard I’ll get me coat. I’m deaf, so i didn’t hear those comments. Oh, dear me, news posts get read not heard! i must be brain-damaged by all that low-carbing (sarcastic comment, in case you didn’t notice) i am still paying for all of those years of poor control. Serves me right, no complaints. i am usually too busy smiling to have time for moaning. BE WARNED, TYPE 1s. Get OFF the premix, get OFF the Insulatard. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Patrick hehe .. yes i noticed, i’m not sure i believe all that twaddle about low carb either … then again we’re in charge of our diabetes not them so it matters not. A long time ago, at least 20 months, i posted an URL saying, with scientific evidence, that more than 60 gms of carb per meal would eventually cause brain damage. Probably take some finding on groups.google, but it is there. i remember Jackie mum of Sasha commenting. As for ADA commenting, the US has a population with 60% of people obese! So i for one will discount most of their dietary advice — i go to the University of South Australia website for the more sensible bit. No doubt the upsidedown Alan will feel flattered by that. He gets good results by standing on his head in comparison to us lot lol — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est So the diets work better if we eat while we stand on our heads? DaveT

Must be so, i think. Jenny ought to put that in her books and website. i don’t think a glass of Aussie red wine would do too well though rotfl — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

i go to the University of South Australia website for the more sensible bit.

PS Web-site? Cheers, Alan —

Response:

No doubt the upsidedown Alan will feel flattered by that. He gets good results by standing on his head in comparison to us lot lol — Alan

The trick is to do it when you’re eating carbs and they all fall out of your mouth. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

So to summarise…. young(ish) free and single, slight wear and tear but with a scrip for viagra and an interest in contortionism…. Ladies, form an orderly queue. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart rotfl I was told i could have Viagra or Alpostradil (sp?) if i wanted. Since i am not in a relationship i declined. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bad News HbA1c 6.5 HDL 1.4 LDL 1.3 Weight 54.7 kilos (down from 63 in only six months!!) Creatine clearance 63 (Lab Normal is 60 to 100) Postural Hypotension makes its first appearance Hyperthyroidism (NOT hypOthyroidism) is suspected Liver Function Test is required Neuropathy has advanced in my feet from 70% to 85% Lipodystrophy in my tum, so I am advised to widen the area of injections, and bolus in my upper arms Muscle wasting in my right thigh has remained the same Neuroarthropathy in my right knee has remained the same Deafness is worse, so two hearing aids now required, where it was one Good news! Triglyceride 0.6 Neuritis in my fingers has completely gone. Retinopathy is still zero. Glaucoma?? Not on your Nellie lol Floaters = nil So, with my sight unimpaired, i can at least watch the rest of me fall apart Alan, Bet the weight loss and the hyperthyroidism is related, so when you sort out the thyroid, the weight should ease up too. i think you may well be right. If i heard Maggie B (my dsn) aright, the weight loss is the main reason she suspects hyperthyroidism. Also slight hyperactivity, and dry skin, but hair is fine. Why did they want a liver function – do they suspect anything going on, or is it just that time of year? They do suspect a problem — see my post to Kate, but also autumn is when they do all the lot for me. i had a flu jab on Saturday morning, podiatry emergency follow-up today, six-monthly podiatry in a couple of weeks, annual lung function in six weeks, etc. I also have an appointment with the diabetes nutritionist again — two-and-a-half years since i saw her. It will make a change for her, putting somebody’s weight UP, instead of down. On Wednesday in two days i got to see the phlebotomist again. They have all got to know me by first name now!! And I do like the good news! : ) Yeah, it breaks the monotony doesn’t it — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est Nicky.

Well hopefully checking the thyroid will take care of half the bads and your principal numbers are not that bad so they may have been affected by that as well. If it’s down to complacency instead I am sure you can take care of that for next time. So at least you get to be poked around by various nurses and other female medics for a while. You never know, it might even take care of the lack of relationship bit. Just make sure she can cook and fatten you up a bit. And if all else fails at least you have the advantage of being able to turn off the herring aids for any snippets of bad news. There’s times when that sounds like an attractive option to me. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

i go to the University of South Australia website for the more sensible bit. PS Web-site?

http://www.unisa.edu.au/ Lots of good stuff, not only nutrition and diabetes. Ricky Ponting and the Waugh twins are the main reason i like Aussies — and no, cricket is not a sport, nor a game, it is not even a way of life. It is the sole reason for life!! I have two Aussie aunts as well, Annalise in Brisbane, Annabel in Melbourne. Up Australia!! (especially in next year’s Ashes series) lol — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Alan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.unisa.edu.au/ Lots of good stuff, not only nutrition and diabetes. Ricky Ponting and the Waugh twins are the main reason i like Aussies — and no, cricket is not a sport, nor a game, it is not even a way of life. It is the sole reason for life!! I have two Aussie aunts as well, Annalise in Brisbane, Annabel in Melbourne. Up Australia!! (especially in next year’s Ashes series) lol — Alan Thx Al To be honest, I never actually played the game (well, not since Primary School); but I developed an interest in the sixties. I don’t think I missed a Boxing Day in the MCG Southern Stand from ‘69 until the late 70s. Them was the days, Lillee, Thommo, Marsh, Borecott (think about it), Cowdrey, Snow, Brierley and the first helmet…nostalgia aint what it used to be… My cricket memories start with Laker’s 19 wicket haul, and Cowdrey and May putting up a stand of over 400 in the West Indies. Borecott and Edrich, Kapil Dev, Rodney Marsh, Graeme Pollok, Inzamam, cor, wot a list to make the mouth water! And it is only a short list. Shame no other sport or game is worth bothering with. So, if you’re watching on Boxing Day (I haven’t even checked to see who we’re going to be defeating:-) look for the reflection from my polished pate, just over the bowler’s arm in the Southern Stand. What are the names of your Aunts in England? Annaconda? Annaversary? Doris, Dorothy, Edna, and dead the others. When you reach my age all of them uncles and aunts start popping off at a great rate.

Hi Alan I’ll pack it in after this one, we’re wandering just a wee bit OT:-) I think the most boring day I had should have been one of the best. Us bowling, your lot batting (Cowdrey back from retirement IIRC) – but because I got there late I had to watch from square leg. So you’d see Lillee run in from over near the fence on the left, the arm go over, the batsman shuffle and duck, then Marsh put his gloves above his head from somewhere over near the fence on your right. The bloody ball went so fast you never saw it unless Cowdrey stuck his bat straight above his head and deflected it for four to square leg – as he did a couple of times:-) Then, after six of those they’d swap and Thommo would come in from the right and do the same thing only even faster. You wondered why Marsh stayed a little chubby when he had to walk so far between overs. I made sure I was early and over the bowlers arm when the Windies came out. Nearly 80000 at the MCG; you couldn’t have fitted another soul in – capacity was theoretically over 100,000 but eskies also take up room:-) When Borecott came on at the MCG, the yobbos in Bay 13 were far more entertaining. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

So to summarise…. young(ish) free and single, slight wear and tear but with a scrip for viagra and an interest in contortionism….

You forgot the "can cook" – absolute babe magnet : ) Nicky. — HgBA1C 10.5/6.4/<6 Weight 95/82/72 1g Metformin, 75mg Thyroxine T2 DX 05/2004

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.unisa.edu.au/ Lots of good stuff, not only nutrition and diabetes. Ricky Ponting and the Waugh twins are the main reason i like Aussies — and no, cricket is not a sport, nor a game, it is not even a way of life. It is the sole reason for life!! I have two Aussie aunts as well, Annalise in Brisbane, Annabel in Melbourne. Up Australia!! (especially in next year’s Ashes series) lol — Alan Thx Al To be honest, I never actually played the game (well, not since Primary School); but I developed an interest in the sixties. I don’t think I missed a Boxing Day in the MCG Southern Stand from ‘69 until the late 70s. Them was the days, Lillee, Thommo, Marsh, Borecott (think about it), Cowdrey, Snow, Brierley and the first helmet…nostalgia aint what it used to be…

My cricket memories start with Laker’s 19 wicket haul, and Cowdrey and May putting up a stand of over 400 in the West Indies. Borecott and Edrich, Kapil Dev, Rodney Marsh, Graeme Pollok, Inzamam, cor, wot a list to make the mouth water! And it is only a short list. Shame no other sport or game is worth bothering with. So, if you’re watching on Boxing Day (I haven’t even checked to see who we’re going to be defeating:-) look for the reflection from my polished pate, just over the bowler’s arm in the Southern Stand. What are the names of your Aunts in England? Annaconda? Annaversary?

Doris, Dorothy, Edna, and dead the others. When you reach my age all of them uncles and aunts start popping off at a great rate. — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email.

Response:

Thx Al To be honest, I never actually played the game (well, not since Primary School); but I developed an interest in the sixties. I don’t think I missed a Boxing Day in the MCG Southern Stand from ‘69 until the late 70s. Them was the days, Lillee, Thommo, Marsh, Borecott (think about it), Cowdrey, Snow, Brierley and the first helmet…nostalgia aint what it used to be… So, if you’re watching on Boxing Day (I haven’t even checked to see who we’re going to be defeating:-) look for the reflection from my polished pate, just over the bowler’s arm in the Southern Stand. What are the names of your Aunts in England? Annaconda? Annaversary? Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. Remove weight and carbs to email. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

Maggie B suggested upping the midday bolus by 2 units, or alternatively 1 unit and do it in my upper arm. She also asked if i wanted to try Hypurin Porcine Neutral — i managed a polite answer, so i must be getting good So at least you get to be poked around by various nurses and other female medics for a while.

For some reason, podiatrists are always female. Maybe they have a feetish? I’ll get me coat! — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You never know, it might even take care of the lack of relationship bit. Just make sure she can cook and fatten you up a bit. And if all else fails at least you have the advantage of being able to turn off the herring aids for any snippets of bad news. There’s times when that sounds like an attractive option to me. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Response:

*youngish*?? Don’t I just wish! — Alan de gustibus non disputandum est – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ladies, form an orderly queue. VBH T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

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