Depression

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My apologies, Wendy. I had read your earlier post, but didn’t put it together . I just read your 2nd post and thought you were saying that not everyone had worked at it they just took pills as an easy way out. I certainly had tried all sorts of therapies. My depression had been of the milder sort until the last 4-5 years. Three years ago, I had my worst bout. I know what triggered it and what it was all about, but I could do nothing to control it. It wasn’t quite as bad as what Jude said…but close. I came close to going in for full-fledged treatment at a hospital. The inner feelings were much like Jude said. I said it before and I remember it actually was a chore to put one foot in front of the other. I had used up almost all of my sick days and I forced myself to go to work to keep my family solvent. It wasn’t until it was all over I was able to discuss it with my co-workers. I had done a good job of covering it up. I avoided lunch hours(I didn’t eat), I couldn’t keep anything down, and had a 3 month bout of diahrea (Irritable Bowel Syndrone which often goes hand in hand with depression). The Dr. had to triple the dose of Zoloft to put a dent into the depression. Listen to Barber’s "Adagio for Strings" and you will scratch the surface of the feelings of desolation, despair, and hopelessness one of these bouts can bring on. just my 2 cents * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Thanks, Thom. But I humbly disagree with you. You may have been depressed, but I’m not sure you have suffered depression.

In lieu of your humility, I have also found it important to ignore false assumptions. Jude, I have been there and been in deep. You’re off base and seem to ignore a critical premise from the original post: that I do suffer from what have been diagnosed as clinical depression stemming from a chemical imbalance resulting from the combination of diabetes and hypothyroidism. But others are seriously clinically depressed. There is not a chance to "look at the bright side" or just admit what the problem is. In clinical depression the person is totally empty, perhaps cannot function AT ALL. My SO some days had a total dietary intake of one saltine cracker, could not wash his face or get dressed. He could not communicate with me in any way and spent many hours a day counting the tiles on the kitchen

floor. Have you tried a different approach that lays the responsibility in the hands of the patient? The fact is that my toughest battles were to get out of that frame of mind. The depression was as much a case of the biochemical situation as it was a case of accepting the way it made me feel. Here are a few things I discovered that work along those lines: 1. As a diabetic, alcoholic intake is strongly discouraged. As a college student (longer ago than I care to admit) alcohol was a part of the social life. You can accept the roll of social outcast or be creative and throw caution to the wind. Solution, nurse on drink all night long and accept the designated driver position. But then, when the car is filled with drunks, make sure the last person dropped off is the person you want to go home with (perhaps that night, maybe some other). 2. When I was suffering from depression, I looked around at my base of friends and acquaintances. One was a friend who was suffering from MS, which was diagnosed some four years earlier when he was 18. At that point he was in a wheelchair, had trouble speaking and facing entry into a nursing center. Yet he was happier than I was. This, from an outsider’s point of view, makes no sense. Here is a man who should be in the prime of his life facing, what is in effect, permanent institutionalization to a place where he will die a premature death because of sheer fate. The realization: my perspective was off. The cause, at least in part, was biochemical. The other parts were situations in my life where I needed to re-evaluate my responses. Coaching my daughter’s soccer team also gave me great insight into the psyche of children, which I believe is close to human nature at all ages. People love responsibility because there is a sense of pride in achieving. As coach I laid out what the player is supposed to do, showed them how to do it, made it their responsibility to do it, and got out of their way so they could do it. If they made a dedicated effort to do it, we rewarded the effort. If they succeeded, we celebrated the success, If they failed, we determined why they failed and worked to correct the error, then let them try again. If they didn’t try, I reminded them that not trying is worse than failure. Then gave them the task, the tools and the responsibility to succeed again. In addition, I reminded them that winning was more fun than losing. That may seem cruel, cold or nasty, but you can’t make me happy. Only I can make me happy. Thom McC.

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[good advice snipped] Thom’s advice is good. Still the thing that finally turned me around was lithium, because after five years my psychiatrist agreed I am bipolar (AKA manic-depressive). YMMV, certainly. and all the serotonin reuptake inhibitors only worked moderately, and for a time. So it can easily be that many people will have various reactions to these medications. But don’t be afraid of a diagnosis (although I was). Be honest with your physician, give the meds some time,and try to take Thom’s advice, especially exercise. Walking is good, and helps your diabetes. [Thom's] post has a lot to offer in the sense that even when you have a biochemical disorder, there is a lot you can do to deal with it. Your first step — to acknowledge that that’s the way it is — is more powerful than many people realize. My husband finds it extremely useful to just "realize" that he’s depressed when he is — stops the running around in the squirrel cage of the mind, if you know what I mean. A recent study showed — and it should come as no surprise — that the most effective treatment for clinical depression is medication COMBINED with cognitive therapy, which is basically what you’re describing — restructuring your thinking.

Amen! Jonathan "Jet Injector" Mills T2 since ‘92

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have seen a lot of posts on the board regarding depression and diabetes. My case is a little more extreme, as I also have hypothyroidism, which carries the depression side effect as well. My approach, while confounding my endocrinologist, has worked better for me than any drugs ever prescribed. First, when you feel depressed, admit it. Admitting that you’re feeling down is the first step to pulling yourself out. These things happen and trying to avoid the onslaught of sadness is like stopping the sun from rising. That’s just the way it is. Second, realize that it’s the result of the condition, not a situation in your life. Realize that it’s the result of the biochemical life of a diabetic. The rest of the world is still a good place and the people around you who are your friends are still your friends. The sun still shines and the rain still falls. The problem lies only in the chemicals in your body. That’s just the way it is. Third, do something. Get off the sofa, get out of the chair and go find the world’s best offerings. If it’s spring, go for a walk and see the way the season is changing. If it’s summer, feel the warmth of the sun. In fall, enjoy the leaves and the preparation for the year-end holidays. In winter, notice the brightness of the snow’s reflection. While these examples are dealing with the seasons, they show that you must take more time to, literally, smell the roses. For those of us with diabetes, modern medicine has given us a second chance at life. We are extremely lucky to be where we are. so make the most of it by dedicating yourself to enjoying the time we’ve got.

Your post has a lot to offer in the sense that even when you have a biochemical disorder, there is a lot you can do to deal with it. Your first step — to acknowledge that that’s the way it is — is more powerful than many people realize. My husband finds it extremely useful to just "realize" that he’s depressed when he is — stops the running around in the squirrel cage of the mind, if you know what I mean. A recent study showed — and it should come as no surprise — that the most effective treatment for clinical depression is medication COMBINED with cognitive therapy, which is basically what you’re describing — restructuring your thinking. Wendy — Just remember…if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off.

Response:

Thanks, Thom. But I humbly disagree with you. You may have been depressed, but I’m not sure you have suffered depression. All of us get depressed from time-to-time, sometimes it is from a tragic incident surrounding our life, sometimes it is a perceived failure. That is normal and natural and can be overcome like you stated. But others are seriously clinically depressed. There is not a chance to "look at the bright side" or just admit what the problem is. In clinical depression the person is totally empty, perhaps cannot function AT ALL. My SO some days had a total dietary intake of one saltine cracker, could not wash his face or get dressed. He could not communicate with me in any way and spent many hours a day counting the tiles on the kitchen floor. Yes, if you are depressed, fight your way out of it. If you or your loved one has depression, get to a professional as soon as you can. Jude — - Coming Soon – BestOrgs.NET Oak Park, IL 708-848-0134 URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

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I have seen a lot of posts on the board regarding depression and diabetes. My case is a little more extreme, as I also have hypothyroidism, which carries the depression side effect as well. My approach, while confounding my endocrinologist, has worked better for me than any drugs ever prescribed. First, when you feel depressed, admit it. Admitting that you’re feeling down is the first step to pulling yourself out. These things happen and trying to avoid the onslaught of sadness is like stopping the sun from rising. That’s just the way it is. Second, realize that it’s the result of the condition, not a situation in your life. Realize that it’s the result of the biochemical life of a diabetic. The rest of the world is still a good place and the people around you who are your friends are still your friends. The sun still shines and the rain still falls. The problem lies only in the chemicals in your body. That’s just the way it is. Third, do something. Get off the sofa, get out of the chair and go find the world’s best offerings. If it’s spring, go for a walk and see the way the season is changing. If it’s summer, feel the warmth of the sun. In fall, enjoy the leaves and the preparation for the year-end holidays. In winter, notice the brightness of the snow’s reflection. While these examples are dealing with the seasons, they show that you must take more time to, literally, smell the roses. For those of us with diabetes, modern medicine has given us a second chance at life. We are extremely lucky to be where we are. so make the most of it by dedicating yourself to enjoying the time we’ve got. Thom McCarthy PS: when you get out of the chair, make sure somebody goes with you. It helps a lot.

Response:

Depression is Anger turned inward. (from the book Love is a Choice – about codependancy – anyon eread it – comments Anyone read The Road Less Travelled or In Search of Stones?) Depression is Anger without the enthusiasm What a load of victim-blaming crap. Depression is a mental illness involving neurotransmitters being out of balance. Priscilla

And it’s a royal PITA!!!! I know. BTDT at least twice a year. c

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Depression is Anger turned inward. (from the book Love is a Choice – about codependancy – anyon eread it – comments Anyone read The Road Less Travelled or In Search of Stones?) Depression is Anger without the enthusiasm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Feeling inadequate ? Remember, half the people you see are below average.

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What a load of victim-blaming crap. Depression is a mental illness involving neurotransmitters being out of balance. Priscilla

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That was not my opinion – just reporting what I had read. Greetings – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Depression is Anger turned inward. (from the book Love is a Choice – about codependancy – anyon eread it – comments Anyone read The Road Less Travelled or In Search of Stones?) Depression is Anger without the enthusiasm What a load of victim-blaming crap. Depression is a mental illness involving neurotransmitters being out of balance. Priscilla

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Feeling inadequate ? Remember, half the people you see are below average.

anyone who must look down on others in order to feel good about themselves has a problem that needs professional help.Mack Type 1 since 1975 http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org http://www.insulin-pumpers.org In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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Feeling inadequate ? Remember, half the people you see are below average.

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Glad to see you’re doing better, Pam! Teri

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Thank you to all who responded to me. I have been on the Wellbutrin for about two weeks, and I seem to be slowly pulling out of my funk. Pam

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Hi Carolyn, Diabetes is an overwhelming disease. The best advice I’ve ever gotten was from my therapist, who told me that sometimes you have to treat yourself like your would your own baby; i.e., think of how compassionate you would be to a small child who was diagnosed with this or any disease, and how you would comfort her and encourage her to use small steps to take care of herself in the immediate present, and try to treat yourself in the same manner. I found this helped cut down on the self-loathing that was becoming a daily part of my life. This can happen easily when you think "my god, i’ll have to deal with this on a daily basis for decades!!". I went through a period of several years when I would go for days without a single blood test, and in general did not take care of myself at all. While in my therapist’s office one day, she asked me what I thought my blood sugar level might be; I of course had no idea. She asked me what I thought would happen if I just tested it right then, took the appropriate amount of insulin to lower the level, and then didn’t think about it for a few hrs. I said I thought I could do that. My level was in the high 300’s, so I took some insulin, and then a few hrs later the level was down. I realize that the treatment of your blood sugars will be different as you are diagnosed as having Type 2, but I hope there are similar small steps that you can make, and be able to focus on those successes rather than looking at the whole picture. Dealing with the whole picture will certainly have to happen eventually, but I think in lots of cases for those first diagnosed , doing so too soon after the diagnosis leads to major depression. It certainly did for me ! Good luck. We are all rooting for you . Kelly Gallagher Type 1, 8 yrs , 29 yrs old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had D type 2 for 2 months, the last week, have been depressed, do not want to talk to anyone around me, about it, just want to suffer in my own, also do not care about having the D, just want to ignore it, dont even bother to test. has anyone else felt like this, Carolyn

Response:

When I was accidentally diagnosed with Type 1, (I applied for a life insurance policy and was turned down) I had been feeling for several years that I did not want to live if I continued to feel like I did. I had become depressed and was not able to deal with anything. I did not know I had diabetes. I was put on orals and felt quite a bit better after a month or so, but after a couple of years, the orals failed to keep my feelings of well-being up. I sadly dragged myself to the doctor again and she put me on Humulin L, a long term acting insulin. I had to take two injection a day and once I established my dosage, I began to feel better than I had felt in years. I now have a wife and several children, and have the greatest job in the world (I’m a teacher ) ! Check into your own situation with all this in mind and you could feel better . e-mail me if this works for you. I would like to hear from you with some positive info. Good luck!

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when i was inadvertantly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes based upon a glucose cocktail challenge in nineteen eighty one i experienced profound dismay. i wept in my bathtub saying a fond farewell to my toes and my fingers and my calves and my eyes. i knew the sequelae only too well. the consulting endocrinologist who interpreted the data points on la mimi decided that i was anorectic on five thousand kilo calories a day. i snarled at him politely. he diagnosed peripheral neuropathy, possible multiple sclerosis and or madness. i was frankly apalled at his inability to listen to either me or my consort edward reid. not until four years ago after a compleat nervous breakdune did i receive the dubious diagnosis of manic depressive. the battle i have faced as a mentally ill support person to my type one insulin dependent consort has oft discouraged me. this newsgroup has sadly been lacking in proper manners and decorum. like it or not type 2 diabetes is often accampanied by mood swings. melee — melynda reid who wears hats but does not type caps as she hates to commit a capital offense i remain a shy and retiring artist without portfolio seriously seeking homeo stasis oh whither art thou homeo??? the over forty wicked wackey mermaid revue has just begun. stay attuned for the next episode..

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Caro;yn I did ignore my diabetes for years. Am now fighting it but have complications with neuropathy and retinopathy. Work at control pretty good now but should have done so years ago. Joe T1 21 years 56 YO Joe Reardon

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I have had D type 2 for 2 months, the last week, have been depressed, do not want to talk to anyone around me, about it, just want to suffer in my own, also do not care about having the D, just want to ignore it, dont even bother to test. has anyone else felt like this, Carolyn

Carolyn, I fully understand what you are saying. I was diagnosed just in April and have gone through some pretty hefty deep ends over this thing. I think one has to go through a grief process when diagnosed with a life changing illness. Now that my blood sugars are nearing normal range, I’ve been loosing weight and my blood pressure is the best it’s ever been, I feel much better about the whole thing, not to mention I have more energy than I have had in a long time! Give yourself time to deal with the changes in your life and adjusting to the new lifestyle. As you see progress, you’ll certainly feel much better. But whatever you do, DON’T IGNORE IT! If you do, you really will have something to be depressed about! Sherry T2 4/99 Glucophage 500mg TID

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For me, it is much more likely that I get depressed when my bgs are HIGH. I don’t know if I’m just very sensitive to it or what, but when I’m high — like in the 200+ range — I’m sleepy and depressed all the time. I was treated for about six months for clinical depression, although in retrospect, I think the depression was a function of the bgs. When you are depressed, it’s difficult to think calmly and positively about anything, but it is also difficult to get yourself motivated to do the things you need to do in order to get out of the depression. I was horribly depressed when I was first diagnosed. No one around me seemed to understand what I was going through. More than anything, they seemed annoyed that I was bothering them with this "illness." I coped by going into complete denial for about five years. I don’t recommend that approach, but I do recommend giving yourself a little time to be with whatever feelings you are having, trusting that they will change over time and you will undoubtedly find the resolve to address some of your problems. Just don’t be hard on yourself now. Wendy

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Honeychile, I would imagine that the vast majority of us have felt this way. NOW, here is the difference between diabetes and many other diseases — YOU can do something about it. Corny as it may sound, you are at a crossroads. You can ignore your diabetes, and you WILL face complications sooner or later. OR you can kick yourself in the butt, and take care of yourself. Nobody can do this for you. There are plenty of people around who will advise and help you, but you are the only one who can actually DO it. Remember, we DO know how you feel. I remember the double whammy I got a few months ago. First I was diagnosed with glaucoma. About a month later came the diabetes diagnosis. I came home and cried for about 3 days. Then I got out the nutrition plan my doctor gave me and got on the Internet and started researching. If you haven’t already seen a diabetes educator, do so if you can. They are so very helpful. Try to approach it with a positive attitude and you’ll be amazed at how easily you can work your way into a healthy routine. Hugs, Teri T2, LSC&E, 4/99 This isn’t a diet. It’s a permanent lifestyle change. I WILL do this! I have had D type 2 for 2 months, the last week, have been depressed, do not want to talk to anyone around me, about it, just want to suffer in my own, also do not care about having the D, just want to ignore it, dont even bother to test. has anyone else felt like this, Carolyn

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I was diagnosed in December with diabetes. My first reaction was I don’t want this disease and I just want my life back the way it was. But when I really took a look at the way it was I found that I was on my way to real trouble, overweight, smoked, didn’t exercise. I weighed 174 lbs of fat then. I was on my way to a heart attack or god knows what. My last weigh-in at the dietitian was 149 and that included a lot of muscle. I roller blade for 30 to 60 minutes every day, walk for 1/2 hour at lunch and exercise for 1/2 hour in the morning. I don’t smoke anymore and I eat right. Diabetes was the best thing that every happened to me because I got off my ass. My blood pressure is down, I don’t have chest pains anymore, I’m not tired all the time. At 47 I’m in better shape than I’ve been in at least 10 years if not longer. It’s basically up to you. You can do nothing and get worse or you can do something about the situation and get better. this is the only disease where YOU really have the power to control what happens. Just another DeadHead Computer Nerd

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Everybody here vents from time to time. I believe nearly all of us will listen sympathetically. But how about the next step? Please try to modify diet as recommended by physician; please try to get exercise; please try to measure your bg. Then please post here,and get lots of comments, most of them useful, which will help you to get in control of your situation and feel like your life is once again in your own hands. Look forward to hearing from you again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have had D type 2 for 2 months, the last week, have been depressed, do not want to talk to anyone around me, about it, just want to suffer in my own, also do not care about having the D, just want to ignore it, dont even bother to test. has anyone else felt like this, Carolyn

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Although you are in the initial depression right now you will find that some diabetics have problems with mood swings based on sugar levels. I’ve found that when the BG goes low, so does the mood. Try to stay in control and you should do fine. : I have had D type 2 for 2 months, the last week, have been depressed, do : not want to talk to anyone around me, about it, just want to suffer in : my own, : also do not care about having the D, just want to ignore it, dont even : bother to test. : has anyone else felt like this, : Carolyn — -|| Art Peipher ||- Peter’s Rules for Sociopathic Obsessive/Compulsives #4 – Do it by the book – But be the author!

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I think probably everyone here can relate to your feelings in one way or another. I just recently (in May) had to start on insulin and in the beginning I had many days when I just didn"t want to deal with it. I am feeling much better now and feel more in control. Educate yourself and listen and learn from others here who have a wealth of experienced. Just coming here and reading everything I can has helped me alot.

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I am sure that you will hear from many people who will tell you that most of us felt exactly like you at the beginning. In a way this disease is not as bad as some others since we can do something about it.

Having developed diabetes at age 19, paying no attention to diet or exercise, at age 26 had become unable to work a full day, was put in the hospital, feeling that I would be dead by age 30, felt very low, in the hospital for 10 days, was told nothing found causing my problem except poor control, given a diet & excerise program to follow, began strict control, began to feel better about myself & the future, I have now for 43 yrs lived a very structed life, being 70 yrs old, in good health, no complications, & feel good as long as I obey the rules. If I slip for 3 days I have all kinds of trouble, so to feel good & live a long happy life live by the rules. Elzie Speir

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You asked if anyone has felt "like this" in the early stages of dealing with diabetes. I am sure that you will hear from many people who will tell you that most of us felt exactly like you at the beginning. In a way this disease is not as bad as some others since we can do something about it. We know what should be done to minimize the consequences. Diet, medication and as much exercise as possible are important things. Most important however is attitude. Keep your chin up and know that all of us are pulling for you. Keep in touch and let us know how you are doing. Lots of luck. Gene

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