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Question:

: But this pathetic castigation of people with HIV as immoral abusers of : the wonderful "benefits" system in the US is beyond absurd.  A system : that is rapidly being dismantled???  Give me a break!  That is just : another canard thrown by people bereft of sense and desperate to cling : to the last straws of a bankrupt concept that HIV is harmless. — I take your point that people with "HIV" may not abuse the system particular more than other groups. Even more that an "HIV" diagnosis is not a picnic (I just got through discussing elsewhere in this newsgroup that the terror of an HIV diagnosis is immunosuppressive all by itself. Surely the benefits one will get as a person with HIV are outweighed by the stress [and dangers] of the diagnosis – I mean most would gladly give up all their benefits to go back to the time *before* they were diagnosed). I think the point that some have made is that whatever benefits that one gets as a person with AIDS can lead to a sense of entitlement, and makes the HIV theory as well as being an HIV "patient" that much more entrenched. What one is financially and emotionally invested in is harder to give up – that’s just human nature. That some people have a sense of entitlement or get other secondary gains for being "HIV antibody positive" is not a good excuse to treat them or all other people with "HIV" "like shit". Whether HIV is harmless or not is not relevant to the above discussion, nor has the [recreational/pharmaceutical] drug-AIDS theory been falsified. I haven’t seen any good reason discussed, let alone scientifically proved, why the exponential increase in 1970s – 1980s drug consumption in the west and particularly in the USA as discussed in Duesberg’s article _The HIV Gap in AIDS Statistics_ *could not* have led to a big increase in immune disease and deaths. Occam’s Razor ignored. Californ

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: A while back johndog and Miller constructed an extremely offensive and : sick post intimating that PWA’s and those with HIV disease are : fraudulantly milking the benefits sysem, and will hang on to their : diagnosis because of these amazing advantages given to us!! — Hi, While I don’t know *exactly* what remarks have offended you, my understanding is that both parties were referring primarily to the situation in the USA rather than the situation in the UK. If the shoe fits, wear it, but if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. I strongly doubt they meant to imply the exploiting-the-benefits game is employed by all PWAs here or abroad.  So why would mere discussion of the existance of said exploitation be offensive to you? Californ

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: A while back johndog and Miller constructed an extremely offensive and : sick post intimating that PWA’s and those with HIV disease are : fraudulantly milking the benefits sysem, and will hang on to their : diagnosis because of these amazing advantages given to us!! — While I don’t know *exactly* what remarks have offended you, my understanding is that both parties were referring primarily to the situation in the USA rather than the situation in the UK. If the shoe fits, wear it, but if it doesn’t, it doesn’t. I strongly doubt they meant

That is offensive, Californ. I live in the U.S. Particularly in New York City.  People with HIV/AIDS are frequently treated like SHIT in THIS country.  It is not a picnic.  Can we find some individuals who abuse the system? Sure. But they are in the minority. It’s also flaws OF the system.  People on SSI (and I think SSD) who get benefits because they were sick and then feel well enough to work are unable to for seven years. No, what they wrote WAS insulting, denigrating and just plain AIDSphobic bullshit.  It is the same kind of tactic used by psycho christian fundies that say gays are all drug-abusing sex fiends. This too is unutterable bullshit.  Of course some gay men fuck a lot and use lots of drugs. (Recent data indicate this trend has changed in the last decade). So do some straight Republican women…I mean, take your pick of "blank" does so-and-so. But this pathetic castigation of people with HIV as immoral abusers of the wonderful "benefits" system in the US is beyond absurd.  A system that is rapidly being dismantled???  Give me a break!  That is just another canard thrown by people bereft of sense and desperate to cling to the last straws of a bankrupt concept that HIV is harmless.                         George M. Carter

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could you please read what i’ve put at this adress and answer me? thank you.

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A while back johndog and Miller constructed an extremely offensive and sick post intimating that PWA’s and those with HIV disease are fraudulantly milking the benefits sysem, and will hang on to their diagnosis because of these amazing advantages given to us!! The post below shows the reality of the situation of people with AIDS here in the UK when it comes to asking for social support: "Carers rapped over AIDS man" Manchester Evening News, 9 and 12 March 1996 (Neal Keeling)     Salford Social Services have been found guilty of maladministration by the local government Ombudsman for allowing a dying AIDS patient to suffer without vital help. An inquiry found that the council failed to assess properly the man’s needs, delayed providing essential items and then took so long to investigate a formal complaint that the man had died before they responded. The man, who was virtually house-bound had asked for a shower and bath equipment, plus a phone. It took nine months to install the shower and was told he didn’t qualify for a phone, so he bought one eight months later. Then the council installed one a month later. A council spokesman said "this case took place three years ago and today there is greater understanding of the needs of people with AIDS and HIV". Joe Burrows, chairman of Salford’s social services committee said that he would not give a penny to the man’s family and that "the money should go to a charity for the disabled, not an AIDS charity". He claimed that the man had "conned" a flat out of Salford housing department by saying he wanted to live near his mother, when in fact his mother wanted nothing to do with him.

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(snip offensive opinions)

(snip more bollocks) Evidence John, Evidence. Paul Blanchard DO London. U.K.

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What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee?

Well, these questions are pointless–but they help me understand a little more about you.  And it’s ugly. Now you want to attack people with HIV for getting benefits?  If this weren’t such an ugly farce it would be laughable. First, it depends on the country. Duh. Second, such funds are dependent on the income of the individual. For people who are poor, the situation is dismal and getting worse in the U.S.  One criteria in the U.S. is that people on SSI (as opposed to welfare) cannot work, or face losing benefits for seven years.  One way of many that the system is fucked up. Given the anti-welfare, anti-Medicaid backlash in the U.S., there are damn few "advantages" to having HIV if one is poor. Often, people are driven to poverty by loss of jobs, home what have you due to failing health or discrimination, lose insurance, etc. and so on.  I have known people who died on gurneys in hospitals because they were indifferent to someone without any insurance being there.  Get a grip. This is even more base and vile than ANYTHING you have ever written here and don’t try to hide behind just asking some innocent question. Your agenda is clarified and is sickening.                 George M. Carter

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(Todd Miller – Pharmacology) writes: What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee? Let me fill it out some more. (snip)

Blackdog to Miller: "Tell you what Todd, why don’t you post a message asking for information on social security payments to people with AIDS, then I can reply giving full flight to all my misinformation, predjudices and plain old nastiness directed at people with a pretend condition. Great idea." You sicko bastards. Paul Blanchard DO London. U.K.

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(Todd Miller – Pharmacology) writes: What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee?

Let me fill it out some more. Here is an extract from one poster who will remain anonymous. It shows that U.S. benefits are pretty generous by any dispassionate standard. Remember also that they are often paid to people in manifestly good health and well able to shift for themselves, or when they have recovered fully from conventional illnesses. To judge by recent posts from the orthodox congregation, it is impossible for anyone to "recover" from an "Aids" or "HIV" condition (in fact this irrational belief forms a central plank of the failed HIV/Aids superstition), so these benefits must therefore be paid for the whole life of the claimant. As many claiants are young, and will live to a full and (evidently) comfortable old age, the cost is not trvial. In fact, given the right set of conditions, it is not unreasonable to suppose that there could even be an heritary component, with the "diagnosis" being passed down from parent to child with the help of gullible "Aids" professionals. Naturally, it has to be left to the reader to judge whether these benefits may have any bearing on the famous reluctance of "HIV+" and "Aids" victims to express doubts about the "HIV" theories. My "benefits" for being labelled HIV antibody positive: Rent paid in full ($625/month) for my [...] studio $115/month in food stamps $330 per month cash These are NYC Division of AIDS services benefits which are quite better than SSI/SSD benefits. I have complete medical coverage through Medicare. Through GMHC I get free theater tickets, massages and meals.

Whether such a recipient has to follow doctor’s orders is unclear. In this case the claimant, although not averse to seeing others accept poisonous "anti-HIV" medication, was very careful to avoid it himself: I don’t take ANY medication so I expect to be around for quite some time.

In fairness, it has to be added that although these benefits must seem like a lavish subsidy to a healthy person, they pale into insignificance beside the kind of loot the "Aids" Industry pays its professionals, employees and self-styled experts. As the "Aids" phenomenon winds up in the UK, we are starting to hear more and more outraged screams from those quarters. —  John

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[...] Hardly any state ADAP programs are going to be providing any of the new

(and in the case of PI, the most effective) drugs. [...] One of the drugs no longer covered under New York’s ADAP program is Marinol. This drug is the sythetic version of THC, a compound found in marijuana. PWA’s who can no longer afford Marinol, and decide to use natural marijuana, are being thrown in jail for trying to relieve their pain. The same thing seems to be happening all over the U.S. I was sent the following by email so I can’t vouch for its authenticity, but it seems to tell a familiar story: The Kentucky Post, Tuesday February 27, 1996 (front page) Rx to peddle pot? Police say no. (big lead headline at top of page) By Frank Main Post staff reporter From an apartment across the street from the Kenton County Courthouse in downtown Covington, Richard Evans operates a marijuana "buying club." Evans makes no secret of what the club does: It buys marijuana on the street, then redistributes it for medical purposes. As often as not, the people supplied with marijuana are terminally ill, often with AIDS. Evans thinks the federal government is hypocritical in permitting the medical use of synthetic THC – the active ingredient in marijuana – but outlawing the plant itself. "It’s like the government is saying you can have vitamin C, but you will go to jail for orange juice," he said. On Feb. 15, Covington police raided Evans apartment, seizing marijuana, bottles of marijuana extract and drug paraphernalia. No arrests have been made, but Evans expects charges. He also expects to defend his right to distribute marijuana as medicine. Gatewood Galbraith, a Lexington attorney and nationally known advocate for legalizing marijuana, confirmed he will represent Evans should charges be filed. "I have been waiting as has he, for any charges to be filed," said Galbraith, who ran for governor last year. Commonwealth Attorney Don Buring would not comment on Evans’ case. But Buring said, his job is to enforce the law. "If they want to get the laws on marijuana changed they should contact their local legislators," Buring said. "I don’t necessarily like all the laws I am required to charge people under, but they are there, and I follow that." Evans said he is director of the year-old Americans for Compassionate Use. From his apartment on Park Place, he has operated one of the 37 marijuana buying clubs across the country. Evans said his marijuana buying club has about 30 members. Some members receive the drug free because they are on limited income due to their medical disabilities, Evans said. The club buys marijuana in large quantities to keep the prices down, he said. "Unfortunately we have to buy it off the street," Evans said. "That has been our only source. We are currently working on ways to make sure we no longer have to buy it off the street." Evans apartment is on the fourth floor of a building at 105 Park Place. A justice of the peace is on the first floor. Evans said the club was not located across from the courthouse for any symbolic reasons. He said he has lived in the apartment for the past seven years and did not become interested in the medicinal use of marijuana until about three years ago, when he saw how the drug improved the lives of several of his terminally ill friends. Evans, 32, said he uses marijuana for medical purposes himself, although he declined to specify his ailment. Evans said he received a prescription in Holland to take marijuana. "We’ll find out how recognized it is in the United States," he said. Two nationally recognized doctors said they support what Evans is doing. Dr. Lester Grinspoon, a professor at Harvard Medical School, is the author of the book, "Marijuana: The Forbidden Medicine." Marijuana has been shown useful in treating the nausea and vomiting of cancer chemotherapy; glaucoma; muscle spasms of people with multiple sclerosis, paraplegia and quadriplegia; migraine headaches and chronic pain. The drug also helps slow down and reverse the weight loss due to AIDS, Grinspoon said. AIDS patients are the people who first started marijuana buying clubs, Grinspoon said. Authorities have not bothered most of the marijuana buying clubs in the United States, he said. A San Francisco club has about 5,000 members, many of whom have AIDS, Grinspoon said. About four years ago, about 80 percent of the voters in a citywide referendum there approved an ordinance making the medical use of marijuana legal. But federal laws against marijuana possession and distribution still supersede local and state laws. Dr. John P. Morgan, who sits on the board of Evans’ local group, Americans for Compassionate Use, as well as the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) in Washington, D.C., is a pharmacology professor at City University of New York Medical School. Morgan said he got to know Evans through NORML and through his own Greater Cincinnati connections. Morgan is from Cincinnati and graduated from the University of Cincinnati Medical School. "I intend to help Richard in any way he asks me," Morgan said. "In spite of the fact that this is an illegal act, it is a completely moral act."          James M. Scutero, original proponent of misc.health.aids          misc.health.aids homepage: http://www.panix.com/~jscutero    MISC.HEALTH.AIDS * HIV/AIDS TALK ONLY * NO COMMERCIALS * NO MODERATORS

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(Todd Miller – Pharmacology) writes: What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee?

You should be resting or you will not receive any benefits at all. "I think I’ve heard about this. Once these beliefs take a hold, every scrap of data is twisted into their support. There is no difference between these superstitions and the kind you find everywhere in the Third World. (Except that those kill fewer people.)  John"

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Parsons, Ph.D. ) writes: I know you read these, and that in itself is satisfying enough. Bruce

You cannot substitute mental masterbation for a relationship with a real human partner.  Your sexuality is an important part of being human.  However, it is up to you to decide whether you want to become a complete individual or continue concentrating on this singular dimension. E-mail my office if you would like a consultation.  No one will think the less of you for seeking help.  Part of maturation is the willingness to accept failure and make changes in your life. Charles P. McCarthy Healthcare Consulting and    Medical Research Carmichael, CA, USA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -mccarthy ) writes: (Todd Miller – Pharmacology) writes: What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee? You should be resting or you will not receive any benefits at all. "I think I’ve heard about this. Once these beliefs take a hold, every scrap of data is twisted into their support. There is no difference between these superstitions and the kind you find everywhere in the Third World. (Except that those kill fewer people.) John"

Pindic,     Other than this being a subject of grave import (no pun intended), I must admit that the sight of your name piques my interest and causes me to chuckle.     How many times did you apply to medical school before you realized you were not "MD material" and decided to go to chiropractic or organic-vegetable doctor school (or some such thing)? I know you read these, and that in itself is satisfying enough. Bruce

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What benefits are available from the government to people who are HIV+ and/or have been diagnosed with AIDS?  How easy or difficult is it to get government subsidy for people so diagnosed?  Are there any criteria for staying on the welfare, like do you have to follow your doctor’s orders to the tee? Thanks for any info. Todd Miller

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With the approval of 3tc, saquinavir, (and most likely very soon delaviridine, indinavir and ritonavir),  the "middle-class" in the insurance economy is literally having the life squeezed out of them. Not fortunate enough to have private insurance and not destitute enough to qualify for Medicaid or Indigent Drug Programs, they have heretofore relied on the ADAP programs to survive. Hardly any state ADAP programs are going to be providing any of the new (and in the case of PI, the most effective) drugs. Meanwhile, very few people in this class can afford to shell out the approximately $1000/month that is now necessary for long-term, effective antiviral therapy. Consequently, it is this group that is going to (literally) suffer the most from our very dysfunctional health care system. Their options: 1) Quit their jobs, sell their assets and live off the govt 2  Rely on the nukes still available thru ADAP…like good ole AZT. 3. Find ways to purchase these drugs at drastically (below wholesale) or rely on groups that collect such unused drugs from patients who no longer take them. I have several friends that are interested in #3.     a) Does anyone have any idea where these drugs can be purchased     at the lowest possible cost?     b) Does anyone know of organizations that provide unused drugs to       those in need (this last question could have legal consequences, so     e-mail may be most appropriate with any suggestions)  For example,     are there any surplus stores of 3tc available anywhere? Any help would be much appreciated.

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