Psychiatric Survivors From

Question:

> Are you aware that you are conversing with people in

alt.support.schizophrenia? > They are not all as whacked out as you seem to think they are.

Hi folks, Are you aware that you are all showing up in alt.auto.mercedes? I am writing you from there. In any further post or reply you might want to delete that group before pressing or clicking SEND, as I have done. Or not, as you wish. "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand."                     –attributed to Confucius *+*  http://Bon.LovesLife.com (dealer in southern California) > >gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel)    On 18 Jun 2002 13:23:43 -0700, in

alt.support.schizophrenia gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel)  wrote: > >kurtull…@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote in message

<news:iOGP8.2568$Fv1.317705@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> In article <94ftgu07svd0frhguodqp76m5bap25b…@4ax.com>, > >> david.d.holenb…@nospam.com wrote:

Response:

Bon, you look like an 818′er.  My guess would be Calabasas.  And you haven’t been to Topanga Canyon since you took that bad blotter back in ‘70, which is the same year you bought that fucking ugly jacket.  Bon, I don’t care what your Dx is, you are def. a Dickhead. "Bon" <BonGiova…@mindLEAFspring.com> wrote in message

news:af02i8$8jv$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Are you aware that you are conversing with people in > alt.support.schizophrenia? > > They are not all as whacked out as you seem to think they are. > Hi folks, > Are you aware that you are all showing up in alt.auto.mercedes? I am writing > you from there. > In any further post or reply you might want to delete that group before > pressing or clicking SEND, as I have done. > Or not, as you wish. > "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." >                     –attributed to Confucius > *+* >  http://Bon.LovesLife.com > (dealer in southern California) > > >gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel)    On 18 Jun 2002 13:23:43 -0700, in > alt.support.schizophrenia gentleman1…@yahoo.com (Garfunkel)  wrote: > > >kurtull…@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote in message > <news:iOGP8.2568$Fv1.317705@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… > > >> In article <94ftgu07svd0frhguodqp76m5bap25b…@4ax.com>, > > >> david.d.holenb…@nospam.com wrote:

Response:

kurtull…@yahoo.com (Kurt Ullman) wrote in message <news:iOGP8.2568$Fv1.317705@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>… > In article <94ftgu07svd0frhguodqp76m5bap25b…@4ax.com>, > david.d.holenb…@nospam.com wrote: > >Not everyone with mental illness needs medications.. 1/3 of persons diagnosed > >with a "schizophrenic" episode go on to fully recover without medications and > >without ever having another episode.  Meds are helpful for the illest of the > > ill > >but they are not for everyone.. not even for everyone who is moderately ill. >    So let the other 2/3 rot? > ——————————————————–

I see this as more of an issue that perhaps the 1/3 should not have had any sort of "schizophrenic" label applied to their behaviour.  By taking labels associated with rather serious, life-long diseases such as schizophrenia, and applying them to others, you accomplish two things: you dilute the significance of true schizophrenia, and you create unnecessary anxiety by making patients think they have schizophrenia when, in fact, they DO NOT have it.  (Face it, there is considerable anxiety associated with any diagnosis of a long-term disease, not just mental disorders: diabetes, thyroid disorders, many cancers, glaucoma, etc.  I don’t think the mental health profession pays as much attention as other medical subspecialities when it comes to the anxiety caused by telling a patient, "You have this disease and you will have it for the rest of your life."  And I don’t think psychiatrists are particularly accurate in their assessments, but their inaccuracy is often insufficient to reduce patient anxiety associated with an often hasty diagnosis and associated medication regimen.) Many people seem to derive benefits from psychiatric pharmaceuticals. Allow them to use medications to help them.  Continue to try to develop newer, safer alternative medications and treatment methods. But don’t adopt an approach of, "Medications help many people, and most people don’t have any serious side effects from them, so we are going to insist that you take them (because if we don’t insist this, we are not likely to get reimbursed by your insurance company for your hospital stay — OR, because I once said you needed to take them, I cannot now change my mind)."  Let’s concentrate on the patient’s well being, including reducing/eliminating any drug-related anxiety, rather than worry about, "What is necessary to get reimbursement from insurance providers?" Just as people can refuse blood transfusions on religious grounds, and considerable legal intervention is necessary to try to overcome such refusals, one should be allowed to refuse psychiatric pharmaceuticals merely on the basis of reasonable fear of side effects — there should be no requirement to concoct some complex legal and/or religious defense.  Kinda like the established "Just say NO!" campaign, but treating "legal" drugs with the same caution and concern as "illegal" drugs.  Just being "legal" does not guarantee safety.  And various people are willing to take lesser or greater risks when it comes to issues of drug "safety".  (I allow a dentist to inject anaesthetics in my gums, for I find their action preferable to the pain that would otherwise be felt, even though I don’t like the slow decay of numbness from dental anaesthetics.  But why should I be forced to take a drug such as valproic acid when it seems to have no effect on me, when it has NOT been approved by the FDA for long-term use in the treatment of bipolar disorder, and when it has associated with it liver damage similar to that from ingestion of ethanol, including liver failure? Just because it makes the psy-doc feel he is "doing his job"?  And risking my life and health, unnecessarily?)  I am thankful that my insurance provider has stepped in — and told the psy-doc they will not pay for his services.  And I certainly won’t pay for services my insurance provider has deemed unnecessary!  At least there are SOME checks-and-balances that can eventually come into play!

Response:

In article <94ftgu07svd0frhguodqp76m5bap25b…@4ax.com>, david.d.holenb…@nospam.com wrote: >Not everyone with mental illness needs medications.. 1/3 of persons diagnosed >with a "schizophrenic" episode go on to fully recover without medications and >without ever having another episode.  Meds are helpful for the illest of the > ill >but they are not for everyone.. not even for everyone who is moderately ill.

   So let the other 2/3 rot? ——————————————————–   "A generous welfare program would put an immediate end to poverty (defined otherwise than as relative deprivation), but by causing the break up of many families, by reducing motivation to work and to save and in general to take some account of the future, and by discouraging migration from areas of poor opportunity to areas of good opportunity it might in the long run do more harm than good on the whole."         Edward Banfield *The Unheavenly City* 1970

Response:

"Ryan." <r…@nospam.nogov> wrote in message

news:307kgugef31p32kia6oi21uo75j7kh43f7@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:56:27 -0400, "Hoosier" > <edfranc…@mindspring.com> wrote: > >"Ryan." <r…@nospam.nogov> wrote in message > >news:ua47gusfns1u6gr2lvucr5u5ldvv7kubcr@4ax.com… > >> On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:41:18 -0700, Geo…@nospam.com wrote: > >antipsychiatry gobbledygook . . . > Anti forced drugging gobbledygook. Which could include some anti > psychiatry gobbledygook to the extent that psychiatry, and the GP > doctors that get people started on the psychotropic drugs, try to > force people to take them. And to the extent that what I consider > to be an overemphasis on drugs interferes suppresses alternative > methods, some of which can do some people some good. > >Here’s an interesting idea:  Let’s ask "Ryan" and "George" to spend one week > >at a large urban homeless shelter or jail with people who refuse to take > >medication that puts them back into reality. Better yet, let’s let them take > >one of these person’s home and support their contention that they don’t have > >a disease at all, while they trash their houses and beat the living shit out > >of them.  Or let’s have them spend a night on the street protecting these > >people’s rights to eat from trash cans, urinate on sidewalks, yell at > >strangers, or freeze to death. > Unfortunately, I do not know too much about the homeless > situation etc.  Would like to learn more.  If you have > information that would help provide a better understanding of > what is really going on with the homeless etc, that would be > something of interest to read. And maybe even consider ideas to > try to improve things.

Sure, Ryan, you’re welcome to come on down to Atlanta where I live – I’ll fix you up with some of the street outreach teams here .  We can shadow Mercy Mobile’s homeless outreach team for a night or two.  We can visit the DeKalb and Fulton County jails (The former chief psychiatrist of jail psych services is a good friend – we can ask him about some of the persons he’s treated).   We can visit a couple of shelters downtown.  I can even introduce you to some people who were put on outpatient committment and it saved their lives (yes, hard to believe, but true).  And you can meet some of the homeless psychotic persons and share your mutual belief that psychiatry is all one big conspiracy and that mental health people should stick their poisonous mind drugs up their asses and if people would just leave them alone everything would be O.K. Unfortunately, I can’t fund you for the trip – you’ll have to do that.  But if you want to visit the nearest big city, I can put you in touch with the local jail commander or homeless outreach coordinator so you can get a taste of reality, not fantasy (which is what the Scientology antipsychiatry zealots are stuck in).  I will warn you however, it’s not going to be pretty. Best wishes, Hoosier

Response:

"Ryan." <r…@nospam.nogov> wrote in message

news:ua47gusfns1u6gr2lvucr5u5ldvv7kubcr@4ax.com… > On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 20:41:18 -0700, Geo…@nospam.com wrote:

antipsychiatry gobbledygook . . . Here’s an interesting idea:  Let’s ask "Ryan" and "George" to spend one week at a large urban homeless shelter or jail with people who refuse to take medication that puts them back into reality. Better yet, let’s let them take one of these person’s home and support their contention that they don’t have a disease at all, while they trash their houses and beat the living shit out of them.  Or let’s have them spend a night on the street protecting these people’s rights to eat from trash cans, urinate on sidewalks, yell at strangers, or freeze to death. Or better yet, let’s just have them try to convince these people to "snap out of it" and go get a life . . . Hoosier "David Oaks is Pure Evil"

Response:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1) LEAD STORY: Psychiatric Survivors From Three Nations Unite to "Defend Our Movement!" See photos of psychiatric survivors from three nations at a strategy meeting where they unite on a top priority campaign: Oppose Sally Satel and Bush Administration attacks on the psychiatric survivor/mental health consumer movement! Photos by disability photo artist Tom Olin here: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/strategy.shtml ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2) NEWS UPDATES ON DEFENDING THE PSYCHIATRIC SURVIVOR MOVEMENT FROM BUSH ADMINISTRATION. Find out the latest news on the campaign to stop President Bush from appointing Sally Satel to a key mental health advisory role, and from ending all funds to consumer/survivor technical assistance: * Provide public comment at a federal meeting in Maryland 6/18/02 and/or e-mail in your comments. * When the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill rallies for parity on June 6, Support Coalition International members will hand out a news release there about "the other side of the story." Is Sally Satel the face of parity under President Bush? * A _Boston Globe_ article 5/28/02 mentions the battle to stop the Satel appointment, and exposes the psychiatric drug industry domination of the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting. * Satel’s back door to the White House? Three links between Vice President Cheney’s wife and Satel… All these updates and more on a web page about RESISTING SALLY SATEL’S ATTACK ON OUR MOVEMENT: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/bush_b.shtml ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3) MAD PRIDE MONTH IS EVERY JULY! Celebrate with psychiatric survivors and mental health consumers every July — Mad Pride Month — especially on Sunday, July 14, 2002. This is the 23rd year Bastille Day has been used to support psychiatric survivors’ liberation. Events are now planned for Vancouver, Canada; Toronto, Canada; UK; Paris; New York State; Oregon: http://www.mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/madpride/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4) RAYS OF HOPE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN MENTAL HEALTH! When President Bush announced the first ten appointees to the President’s New Freedom Commission on Mental Health, psychiatric survivor/psychiatrist Dan Fisher made the list. Dan supports human rights, alternatives and the idea of full recovery. Read about Dan and other appointees: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/bush10.shtml _US News & World Report_ 6/3/02 covered the mental health consumer/psychiatric survivor movement: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/usnews.shtml _ Washington Post_ 5/26/02 exposed the growing psychiatric drug industry influence over the American Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting. http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/post_e.shtml Laura Van Tosh, organizer of the May Freedom Rally that protested psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey when he spoke in Maryland, announced the event was a success! See reports, testimony and a link to photographs of the Freedom Rally by Tom Olin here: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/rockville.shtml The Bruce Levine speaking tour has wrapped up with many successful events, including a packed house in Eugene, Oregon, where his guest column was printed in the local newspaper. Levine is a psychologist and author of the new book, _Commonsense Rebellion: Debunking Psychiatry,  Confronting Society – An A to Z Guide to Rehumanizing Our Lives._ [Available from Mad Market.] http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/levine_c.shtml ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 5) AND FINALLY, NEWS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF: "IT’S NOW SCIENCE FACT, NOT SCIENCE FICTION!" UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA ANNOUNCES DEVELOPMENT OF MIND CONTROL IMPLANTS University of Pennsylvania researchers announced development of implantable discs that slowly release psychiatric neuroleptic drugs for up to five months, and potentially up to one year. The main funder: Stanley Foundation, with leadership of E. Fuller Torrey, one of main groups pushing for more forced psychiatry. Raquel Gur, one of the implant developers, was also a researcher on a study published in 1998 using MRI scans to link taking neuroleptics to structural brain changes. Ask Dr. Gur why she isn’t warning the public about that: http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/implant.shtml PFIZER ANNOUNCES A NEW PSYCHIATRIC DRUG TARGETING PMS — BUT IT’S THE SAME OLD ZOLOFT. The _LA Times_ business section front page (5/21/02) announced that Pfizer has developed a drug for severe PMS, but it’s the same old Zoloft by a different name. SCI Director David Oaks is quoted as saying, "The drug industry can be counted on to go too far." http://mindfreedom.org/mindfreedom/pfizer.shtml ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ACTION: PLEASE COPY & POST THESE HUMAN RIGHTS NEWS ALERTS TO ALL APPROPRIATE PLACES ON AND OFF THE INTERNET! THANKS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JOIN SUPPORT COALITION INTERNATIONAL TODAY! MINDFREEDOM is independently funded by people like you, and totally free of government, mental health system and drug company funding. MINDFREEDOM is proudly rooted in the 32-year-old psychiatric survivor human rights movement. MINDFREEDOM is a project of Support Coalition International, a federation of more than 100 grassroots groups united to win human rights and alternatives in the "mental health system." YOU ARE INVITED TO JOIN, DONATE OR RENEW YOUR MEMBERSHIP NOW with Support Coalition International by Discover, American Express, VISA or MasterCard via a secure web server: http://mindfreedom.org/join.shtml That web page also tells you how to join by phone, FAX, or mail to: SCI; POB 11284; Eugene, OR 97440 USA. Build strength in numbers! And members get 10 percent off more than 75 items in the MAD MARKET: http://www.mindfreedom.org/madmarket/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.MindFreedom.org BRIEF ALERTS #11 is a free public service sent to several thousand people internationally who take ACTION for human rights, and forward these news alerts to others. These alerts are occasional to minimize the e-mail you receive. To receive these, e-mail to <ListP…@efn.org> with these two words only in the body of your message: subscribe dendrite Or sign up for alerts automatically on the web at: http://www.mindfreedom.org/alerts.shtml ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ shule…@ghc.org

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