Glaucoma Disease » Glaucoma Treatment

How long will my vision last ?

admin — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

William Stacy wrote: > Modern field testers are pretty good at picking up early damage, but > yes, once it shows up on field testing, significant damage has been > done. But since you have no field loss, I would still question the > diagnosis, not because I don’t believe your doctor, but because there is > no precise recipe for that diagnosis that everyone agrees on. I > personally believe that in some cases like yours, unless a change in the > optic nerve can be documented by photography or other optic nerve > imaging, the diagnosis may be premature. Ergo, the 2nd opinion, and if > they disagree, get a 3rd and go with the concensus. You’ve got lots of > time.

Is it always true that there is significant damage once a visual field test shows a defect? In my case, if there weren’t a repeatable visual field defect (it is mild but widespread) I think I would still be considered a glaucoma suspect because with normal eye pressures and a deceptively healthy looking optic nerve, there wouldn’t be much else to go on, other than a borderline sector in HRT. Despite the visual field defect I was told my case is early or mild. I wish it could have been caught before there was any vision loss but as I said, with normal pressures and myopic disks I understand it can be hard to diagnose. -Gudrun

Response:

Glaucoma is a disease that is much less likely to take your sight when it is diagnosed early and managed well. For example, when Kirby Puckett of the Minnesota Twins "suddenly" went blind from glaucoma, his pressure was over 50! He now lectures young athletes all over the world about the dangers of being a glaucoma patient for years without being diagnosed or treated until a disaster occurs. Your doctor is being very cautious and being protective of your sight. Xalatan is a superior glaucoma drop in that it has been shown to not only lower the pressure on the optic nerve, but is has also shown an ability to protect the optic nerve from damage in the future by shielding the nerve from future damage. This drug and others in its class are all less than 10 years old, so "old" studies of blindness from glaucoma are not as relevant because the nature of the disease and our ability to treat it has changed so much for the better.

Response:

The more you study the history of headache research and pain management, the more you realize how much we just don’t know about this stuff. A trigger for a migraine can be any other kind of pain. I had a patient with visual migraines so bad that she would pull off the road and weep for hours until her aura would go away or she fell asleep. After every test known to man to rule out a brain tumor, etc…she accidentally found the trigger that started her migraines…at the dentist!! She had an impacted wisdom tooth on one side that was so bad that the nerve pain in her jaw would go from her jaw back to the visual cortex, causing her the intense visual migraines. Three months and two root canals later, she is pretty much migraine free. So, do I think that the two (LTG and migraine) can be related? Yes, in the sense that all pain can be related because the body has an ability to transfer pain. I can’t imagine your migraine as a "cause" of glaucoma, but I can more rationally see the glaucoma causing a migraine. Let’s not even touch that left brain/right brain stuff. It gives me a migraine.

Response:

By definition, normal tension glaucoma is harder to diagnose and is often left untreated for extended periods of time because it is often undiagnosed for years. So, your question is unfair in a certain way. For example, the recent statistics from the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that minivans had less crashes per thousand vehicles than any other kind of vehicle, and there were fewer fatalities per thousand vehicles. Can you conclude from those statistics that minivans are the safest vehicle to drive? No, you can only conclude that the KIND OF PERSON that drives a minivan is the least likely kind of person to crash and die. So, since you are an early diagnosed LTG patient who is being watched closely with nerve-protecting prophylactic care, you are more likely to save your sight than the "average" LTG patient. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > I am happy to know that Xalatan does more than lowering IOP, since I > read that for normal tension glaucoma there are some other mysterious > factors that contribute to optic nerve cells dying off, rather than > just high eye pressure. > If you are a clinician would you mind telling me if NTG are more > difficult to treat and has a higher rate of vision loss, even with > treatment, when compare with POAG ? > Thanks again for your time.

Response:

Oh and by the way, if the larger cup belongs to a larger nerve (disk), it is completely normal. It’s more suggestive if the nerves are equal, and very suspicious if it is on a smaller nerve. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Asymetrical cups are always a red flag, but it is so common that by > itself it is just another relative risk factor. I’d be more suspicious > if there was a concurrent difference in i.o.p. > w.stacy, o.d.

Response:

I doubt it because pain is not a part of glaucoma except in very high pressures. But I would look at the individual medications and any effect they might have on eye pressure could be significant. w.stacy, o.d. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > Thanks for the analysis, I think what you have said is logical. I hope > you don’t mind if I ask another question: since I am a migraine > patient, do you think treating migraine itself will some how help my > glaucoma ? It is very interesting because when I have a migraine > attack, the pain is always on the right side of my head. And it is my > left eye which has glaucoma. From my very limited anatomy knowledge I > know the left eye is actually connected to the right brain. May be the > two conditions are somehow related ?

Response:

buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > Just to have an idea if someone with an earlier stage of glaucoma > receive no treatment at all, how long does it take for her to loss > peripherial vision, and how long to loss central vision ? Is there any > general trend in this ? I know every case is different, but is there > any concensus on the natural history of this illness ?

The disease has many different variables, knowns, unknowns, courses, and treatments. And different experts will give you different opinions. Add to that the theories are changing as more is learned. There are some things that are pretty well "concensus" but not all. It really does vary from eye to eye. I know it sounds screwy, but there is a lot we don’t know about this disease. > I don’t know who is considered a glaucoma specialist, but I think more > than half of his patients see him for glaucoma. I was told I have > normal tension open angle glaucoma. Thanks for the suggestion I will > ask how it will affect my occupation.

Glaucoma specialists limit their practices to glaucoma cases. Sounds like he might be a general ophthalmologist with a "special interest" in glaucoma. > No, none of my visual field test shows anything unusual, so my > diagnosis was based on the condition of my optic nerve. I was told that > it takes quite some damage to have an effect on visual field. Is that > correct ?

Modern field testers are pretty good at picking up early damage, but yes, once it shows up on field testing, significant damage has been done. But since you have no field loss, I would still question the diagnosis, not because I don’t believe your doctor, but because there is no precise recipe for that diagnosis that everyone agrees on. I personally believe that in some cases like yours, unless a change in the optic nerve can be documented by photography or other optic nerve imaging, the diagnosis may be premature. Ergo, the 2nd opinion, and if they disagree, get a 3rd and go with the concensus. You’ve got lots of time. w.stacy, o.d.

Response:

Of course I will be second guessing your doc but I’m wondering a bit about the diagnosis. Was it based on sequential HRT’s or what? Did he/she see any enlargment of the cups over time? .6 and .4 are not particularly big cups for a myope with large discs, and 19 is not all that high for iop. Sounds like you’ve got lots of nerve tissue there, and while nobody can predict with certainty, I’d be surprised if you were to become blind any time in your life, especially with all the advancements in the field that have and will take place. w.stacy, o.d. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > I am 39 and was diagnosed with glaucoma in my left eye last week. My > doctor made the diagnosis after a HRT was done. My cup disk ratio is > 0.64 on my left eye, 0.45 on my right eye. My doctor said there was > some obvious damage in the left eye. My eye pressure are around 19 for > both eyes. I am myopic and my disks are very large to begin with (4 > mm), and I am also have migraine, and my doctor has called me a suspect > for two years. > I was put on Xalatan and my doctor said not to worry too much. He said > we will treat the other eye too. > My understanding is most glaucoma patients are elderly, and may be most > of them don’t live long enough to go blind anyway. My question is does > anybody know of any statistics of young patients going blind ? I still > have 36 years ahead if I can live to the age of 75. May be I won’t go > blind in the next 10 years. But what about 20 or 30 years later ? > I will appreciate if some of you can point me to any statistics/studies > or personal experience. I want to plan ahead if I know I am going to be > blind sometime down the road. > Thanks.

Response:

buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely go seek a second and third > opinion. But William, do you agree that most cupping in normal eyes are > symmetrical between the two eyes, no matter if they are small or large > ?

Asymetrical cups are always a red flag, but it is so common that by itself it is just another relative risk factor. I’d be more suspicious if there was a concurrent difference in i.o.p. w.stacy, o.d.

Response:

buywhe…@hotmail.com wrote: > Thank you for your kind words William, I chope what you have said will > come true. But since I have kids to take care of I need to be realistic > and plan ahead … (eg. start a new career which a low vision/blind > person can do, may be ?)

Most glaucomas are slow to take vision, usually affecting peripheral vision long before central vision goes, usually taking years to even be noticed by the patient. > To answer your question, no, my diagnosis was not based on sequential > HRTs. It was based on one single HRT. My doctor said based on his > experience the shape of my left nerve cup is definitely due to > glaucoma. He has been suspicious about my cupping for two years.

Maybe I’m not as sure about HRT as he is. But again I’m second guessing. Anyway, I’m suspicious enough to recommend a 2nd opinion by a glaucoma specialist. After all, we are talking about a life sentence of eyedrops/what-have-you treatment and expensive monitoring. If your doc is a glaucoma specialist, then fine, ask him how soon your type will/can cause you occupational problems. I have heard some stories about people successful in maintaining > their eye sight for 20 or even 30 years. But I guess there must be a > lot of failure examples too.

Sure, most people do not outlive their glaucoma. BTW did you do visual fields? Any demonstrable field defect? If so, I’ll yield to that, but if not, get that 2nd opinion and be sure to report back here. w.stacy, o.d.

Response:

Nasonex

admin — Mon, 18 Apr 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi, all, My internist is suggesting I switch from Allegra-D pills to Nasonex nasal spray to treat my allergies because of dry-mouth problems. However, I’m concerned because it’s a corticosteroid. Does anyone know anything about its safety for glaucoma patients? Thanks, Laura

Response:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:42:57 GMT, Laura wrote: >Hi, all, >My internist is suggesting I switch from Allegra-D pills to Nasonex >nasal spray to treat my allergies because of dry-mouth problems. >However, I’m concerned because it’s a corticosteroid. >Does anyone know anything about its safety for glaucoma patients? >Thanks, >Laura

The best treatment is to get shots to build up your tolerance so that you can stop taking any of those drugs. Why not see an allergist for the problem? I think the type of Glaucoma you have is important in determining whether or not steroid medication can be a problem. Best to discuss with the Dr treating your Glaucoma. Cheers, Ann To email: replace ‘REMOVE’ with ‘b’ in email address.

Response:

glaucoma and p.C user

admin — Wed, 05 Jan 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"edoardo fiorani" wrote in message

news:k3WCd.637608$35.26131846@news4.tin.it… > Hi to everybody, > I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe > glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than > normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i > need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i > have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to change > it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? > edoardo

I read the news report of that study. There was no distinction made between CRT monitors and LCD screens. IMO the study suggest that a CRT screen is not so good for your eyes as it would seem likely the majority of the subjects were using CRT screens.

Response:

More old messages relevant to this subject : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.glaucoma/browse_threa… A description of my personal experience can be found there. Take care and have plenty of rest for your eyes. Sun Chong Hong (In case the link doesn’t work, use google advance search to search within this newsgroup with *glaucoma and computers* for heading and *rachael reynolds* for author.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -edoardo fiorani wrote: > i thank you > my oculist says that there isn’t any connection between the use of PC and > glaucoma;but it’ also true that a new Japanese resarch confirms that if a > person is short sighted as i am,and he or she uses the P.c for a long time > (8-9 ours everyday), the risk of glaucoma increases…..and so what should > happened to my eyes???? > edoardo > "Hubert Mak" ha scritto nel messaggio > news:Pine.A41.4.05.10501061054080.38594-100000@srv1.calcna.ab.ca… > > Part 1: If you know you have problem (glaucoma) in your eye, you > > should get advice/treatment from your trusted eye doctor, > > not the internet. > > Part 2: The Monitor maybe part of the problem, try the following > > and see any help: > > 1 – Try a 17" (fair to good quality) LCD Monitor. > > 2 – Try adjust/change the Fonts, Text Size, and > > Color to make your eye feels better. > > Hope this helps. > > —————————————————————- > > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, edoardo fiorani wrote: > >> Hi to everybody, > >> I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe > >> glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than > >> normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i > >> need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i > >> have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to > >> change > >> it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? > >> edoardo > > —————————————————————-

Response:

Part 1: If you know you have problem (glaucoma) in your eye, you should get advice/treatment from your trusted eye doctor, not the internet. Part 2: The Monitor maybe part of the problem, try the following and see any help: 1 – Try a 17" (fair to good quality) LCD Monitor. 2 – Try adjust/change the Fonts, Text Size, and Color to make your eye feels better. Hope this helps. —————————————————————- On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, edoardo fiorani wrote: > Hi to everybody, > I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe > glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than > normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i > need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i > have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to change > it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? > edoardo

—————————————————————-

Response:

"Sun" wrote in news:1105277334.563494.307020@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> More old messages relevant to this subject : > http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.glaucoma/browse_threa > d/thread/1d3db382dc350fa0/0c9d2558069cf72d?q=insubject:glaucoma+insub > ject:and+insubject:computers+author:rachael+author:reynolds&_done=%2F > groups%3Fas_q%3D%26num%3D10%26scoring%3Dr%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as > _epq%3D%26as_oq%3D%26as_eq%3D%26as_ugroup%3D%26as_usubject%3Dglaucoma > +and+computers%26as_uauthors%3Drachael+reynolds%26lr%3D%26as_drrb%3Dq > %26as_qdr%3D%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D1981%26as_maxd%3 > D9%26as_maxm%3D1%26as_maxy%3D1981%26safe%3Doff%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+ > Search&&d#0c9d2558069cf72d > A description of my personal experience can be found there. > Take care and have plenty of rest for your eyes. > Sun Chong Hong > (In case the link doesn’t work, use google advance search to search > within this newsgroup with *glaucoma and computers* for heading and > *rachael reynolds* for author.)

Better yet, if you have a really long URL to post, go to http://www.tinyurl.com to make it an URL that people can actually use! Searching the newsgroup can be a real PITA! Sherry

Response:

On 9 Jan 2005 20:28:40 GMT, Sherry wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Sun" wrote in >news:1105277334.563494.307020@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: >> More old messages relevant to this subject : >> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.glaucoma/browse_threa >> d/thread/1d3db382dc350fa0/0c9d2558069cf72d?q=insubject:glaucoma+insub >> ject:and+insubject:computers+author:rachael+author:reynolds&_done=%2F >> groups%3Fas_q%3D%26num%3D10%26scoring%3Dr%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as >> _epq%3D%26as_oq%3D%26as_eq%3D%26as_ugroup%3D%26as_usubject%3Dglaucoma >> +and+computers%26as_uauthors%3Drachael+reynolds%26lr%3D%26as_drrb%3Dq >> %26as_qdr%3D%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D1981%26as_maxd%3 >> D9%26as_maxm%3D1%26as_maxy%3D1981%26safe%3Doff%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+ >> Search&&d#0c9d2558069cf72d >> A description of my personal experience can be found there. >> Take care and have plenty of rest for your eyes. >> Sun Chong Hong >> (In case the link doesn’t work, use google advance search to search >> within this newsgroup with *glaucoma and computers* for heading and >> *rachael reynolds* for author.) >Better yet, if you have a really long URL to post, go to >http://www.tinyurl.com to make it an URL that people can actually use! >Searching the newsgroup can be a real PITA! >Sherry

Thanks, Sherry! The result: http://tinyurl.com/69rhe seems to work. John

Response:

Hi to everybody, I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to change it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? edoardo

Response:

i thank you my oculist says that there isn’t any connection between the use of PC and glaucoma;but it’ also true that a new Japanese resarch confirms that if a person is short sighted as i am,and he or she uses the P.c for a long time (8-9 ours everyday), the risk of glaucoma increases…..and so what should happened to my eyes???? edoardo "Hubert Mak" ha scritto nel messaggio news:Pine.A41.4.05.10501061054080.38594-100000@srv1.calcna.ab.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Part 1: If you know you have problem (glaucoma) in your eye, you > should get advice/treatment from your trusted eye doctor, > not the internet. > Part 2: The Monitor maybe part of the problem, try the following > and see any help: > 1 – Try a 17" (fair to good quality) LCD Monitor. > 2 – Try adjust/change the Fonts, Text Size, and > Color to make your eye feels better. > Hope this helps. > —————————————————————- > On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, edoardo fiorani wrote: >> Hi to everybody, >> I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe >> glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than >> normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i >> need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i >> have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to >> change >> it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? >> edoardo > —————————————————————-

Response:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 18:09:20 GMT, "edoardo fiorani" wrote: >Hi to everybody, > I’m a 29 years old engineer and four years ago i discovered to havethe >glaucoma.i tested many medicines ,but the pressure is still higher than >normal one ( about 20 mmHg).For my work -i’m an automoitve engineer – i >need using the p.c for many hours during the day ,with the result that i >have always my eyes painful.My job is fantastic and i don’t want to change >it but the health is much more important..what should i do???? > edoardo

To the extent it is compatible with your work, try light colored text on a dark background. It’s much easier on the eyes. John

Response:

can ginko biloba be useful in glaucoma?

admin — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hello, I heard that ginko biloba can be useful in retinopathy and I was wondering whether it can be useful in glaucoma, as well. Do you know whether there are any studies about that? Thank you very much Alberto

Response:

On 24 Nov 2004 02:38:01 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ann commented: >>When I started taking it I was taking 240 mg daily. I also take Vit E >>and sometimes, fish oil. I starting getting alot of black & blue >>marks, so cut back on Ginko to 120< >and… >>it’s important to get a >>good product – not all Ginko is created equal.< >Interesting reaction. I wonder if that is a type of "titration" (finding the >proper amount of a substance). I’ve been using 240 recently as well, and 800 E, >but have no noticable side effects. >I also wonder how you have determined what is a good product. Mine is Solaray >leaf extract with 24% flavoglysides and 6% terpene lactones. What brand (s) do >you suggest?

I get my ginko from Vitamin Research Products, as recommended by my GS. I take one 60 mg capsule in the morning; a second in the evening, as opposed to one 120 mg capsule. Here’s a paste from VRP’s website description for this product giving the composition you want in any such product: Not to be taken with aspirin or blood-thinning drugs. (24% ginkgoflavonglycosides 6.5% terpene lactones.) 60 mg to 240 mg per day. So Hal, your brand is falling 0.5% short of VRP’s on terpene lactones. Don’t know how significant that is, but I was told not to take a brand with less than those percents quoted above. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ann To email: replace ‘REMOVE’ with ‘b’ in email address.

Response:

"Alberto" wrote in message … > Hello, > I heard that ginko biloba can be useful in retinopathy and I was wondering > whether it can be useful in glaucoma, as well. > Do you know whether there are any studies about that? > Thank you very much > Alberto

I haven’t seen any randomized trials in peer-reviewed ophthalmology journals regarding ginko and glaucoma. If I do, I will certainly bring the results up here in this group. –Rick Cohn, MD

Response:

I’m curious what the dosages in these studies were. I’ve been taking 120 mg. of ginkgo for some months now — the smallest I’d seen mentioned in clinical studies. I wanted to be cautious because I also take Vitamin E and fish oil, and all of these things are blood thinners. Or so I understand, anyway. Laura On 20 Nov 2004 13:53:30 -0800, eyegu…@aol.com (Rick Cohn, M.D.) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve done a little more of a literature search on Ginko. Robert >Ritch, MD, at New York Eye & Ear Infirmary wrote the following in >2000: >"Ginkgo biloba extract is freely available and has several biological >actions which combine to make it a potentially important agent in the >treatment of glaucoma: improvement of central and peripheral blood >flow, reduction of vasospasm, reduction of serum viscosity, >antioxidant activity, platelet activating factor inhibitory activity, >inhibition of apoptosis, and inhibition of excitotoxicity. The effect >of Ginkgo biloba extract as a potential antiglaucoma therapy deserves >intensive scrutiny." > Hirooka, et al. at Kagawa University in Japan tested Ginko extract >in rat models of glaucoma. They found that Ginko had a >neuroprotective role in eyes with chronic moderate IOP >elevation…eyes of rats not treated with Ginko lost about 30% of >their retinal ganglion cells at 5 months compared with about 5% of >those who received pre and post IOP elevation treatment with Ginko. > In 1999, as study by Chung, et al. at Indiana University showed >Ginko greatly increased blood flow to the eye in the ophthalmic >artery. This could be quite useful in glaucoma patients, especially >those with low-tension glaucoma. Take home message…Ginko probably >couldn’t hurt, and it looks like in some patients, it probably could >help…it not in you, then certainly in your pet rat!.

Response:

I don’t remember where, but one article I found gave a list of specific brands of ginkgo that were used in various research studies. I found one, GinkGold by Nature’s Way, at drugstore.com. I order from them periodically anyway, so it was no trouble to add that to my shopping list. Before that I looked at some from my local drugstore, but returned it unopened because it had several other herbs mixed in with it. I avoid products like that, unless the extras are stuff I KNOW I want (like a little vitamin D with my calcium). As a general rule I really don’t trust herbs, period, and I don’t want to be messing around with any extras that I don’t know anything about. Laura On 24 Nov 2004 02:38:01 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I also wonder how you have determined what is a good product. Mine is Solaray >leaf extract with 24% flavoglysides and 6% terpene lactones. What brand (s) do >you suggest?

Response:

Check out www.ConsumerLab.com. It’s a subscription site of an independent testing lab that analyzes vitamins, minerals, herbals, etc. There’s a lot of info you can get without subscribing but need to subscribe to get the full info. In a post to the glaucoma yahoo group on 3 Jul 2004, Dr. Robert Ritch mentioned two "high-quality standardized extracts" 1) EGb 761, a German extract marketed in the US as Ginkoba and Gink- gold (so you’re right on there, Laura!) 2) Vitamin Research Products in Carson City, NV. Their website is www.vrp.com He recommends a dosage of 120 mg once a day. Sherry Laura wrote in news:khb8q0dojkv2os6fjvmlu56icvivri3s55@4ax.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t remember where, but one article I found gave a list of > specific brands of ginkgo that were used in various research > studies. I found one, GinkGold by Nature’s Way, at drugstore.com. I > order from them periodically anyway, so it was no trouble to add > that to my shopping list. > Laura > On 24 Nov 2004 02:38:01 GMT, halt…@aol.com (Halterb) wrote: >>I also wonder how you have determined what is a good product. Mine >>is Solaray leaf extract with 24% flavoglysides and 6% terpene >>lactones. What brand (s) do you suggest?

Response:

When I started taking it I was taking 240 mg daily. I also take Vit E and sometimes, fish oil. I starting getting alot of black & blue marks, so cut back on Ginko to 120 mg per day. That dosage works fine for me for 1& 1/2 years now. I still feel the visual clarity that I immediately noticed with the higher dosage, so I assume it’s enough to do whatever it’s supposed to do. However, it’s important to get a good product – not all Ginko is created equal. Regards, Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:59:14 GMT, Laura wrote: >I’m curious what the dosages in these studies were. I’ve been taking >120 mg. of ginkgo for some months now — the smallest I’d seen >mentioned in clinical studies. I wanted to be cautious because I also >take Vitamin E and fish oil, and all of these things are blood >thinners. Or so I understand, anyway. >Laura >On 20 Nov 2004 13:53:30 -0800, eyegu…@aol.com (Rick Cohn, M.D.) >wrote: >>I’ve done a little more of a literature search on Ginko. Robert >>Ritch, MD, at New York Eye & Ear Infirmary wrote the following in >>2000: >>"Ginkgo biloba extract is freely available and has several biological >>actions which combine to make it a potentially important agent in the >>treatment of glaucoma: improvement of central and peripheral blood >>flow, reduction of vasospasm, reduction of serum viscosity, >>antioxidant activity, platelet activating factor inhibitory activity, >>inhibition of apoptosis, and inhibition of excitotoxicity. The effect >>of Ginkgo biloba extract as a potential antiglaucoma therapy deserves >>intensive scrutiny." >> Hirooka, et al. at Kagawa University in Japan tested Ginko extract >>in rat models of glaucoma. They found that Ginko had a >>neuroprotective role in eyes with chronic moderate IOP >>elevation…eyes of rats not treated with Ginko lost about 30% of >>their retinal ganglion cells at 5 months compared with about 5% of >>those who received pre and post IOP elevation treatment with Ginko. >> In 1999, as study by Chung, et al. at Indiana University showed >>Ginko greatly increased blood flow to the eye in the ophthalmic >>artery. This could be quite useful in glaucoma patients, especially >>those with low-tension glaucoma. Take home message…Ginko probably >>couldn’t hurt, and it looks like in some patients, it probably could >>help…it not in you, then certainly in your pet rat!.

Cheers, Ann To email: replace ‘REMOVE’ with ‘b’ in email address.

Response:

Ann commented: >When I started taking it I was taking 240 mg daily. I also take Vit E >and sometimes, fish oil. I starting getting alot of black & blue >marks, so cut back on Ginko to 120<

and… >it’s important to get a >good product – not all Ginko is created equal.<

Interesting reaction. I wonder if that is a type of "titration" (finding the proper amount of a substance). I’ve been using 240 recently as well, and 800 E, but have no noticable side effects. I also wonder how you have determined what is a good product. Mine is Solaray leaf extract with 24% flavoglysides and 6% terpene lactones. What brand (s) do you suggest?

Response:

"Alberto" wrote in news:cEknd.40379$Ni.1406072@twister1.libero.it: > Hello, > I heard that ginko biloba can be useful in retinopathy and I was > wondering whether it can be useful in glaucoma, as well. > Do you know whether there are any studies about that? > Thank you very much > Alberto

Dr. Robert Ritch supports the use of Gingko Biloba. You can find an abstract of his study at http://tinyurl.com/6ao5p. He said that more recent studies have supported his findings. http://tinyurl.com/585lv http://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/glaucoma_news.htm (last article at the bottom – some other good ones on this page too!) Sherry

Response:

I’ve heard favorable reports on it, and my glaucoma specialist mentioned it to me. Be sure, however, you are not taking aspirin, anticoagulants, or have any bleeding issues.

Response:

I’ve done a little more of a literature search on Ginko. Robert Ritch, MD, at New York Eye & Ear Infirmary wrote the following in 2000: "Ginkgo biloba extract is freely available and has several biological actions which combine to make it a potentially important agent in the treatment of glaucoma: improvement of central and peripheral blood flow, reduction of vasospasm, reduction of serum viscosity, antioxidant activity, platelet activating factor inhibitory activity, inhibition of apoptosis, and inhibition of excitotoxicity. The effect of Ginkgo biloba extract as a potential antiglaucoma therapy deserves intensive scrutiny." Hirooka, et al. at Kagawa University in Japan tested Ginko extract in rat models of glaucoma. They found that Ginko had a neuroprotective role in eyes with chronic moderate IOP elevation…eyes of rats not treated with Ginko lost about 30% of their retinal ganglion cells at 5 months compared with about 5% of those who received pre and post IOP elevation treatment with Ginko. In 1999, as study by Chung, et al. at Indiana University showed Ginko greatly increased blood flow to the eye in the ophthalmic artery. This could be quite useful in glaucoma patients, especially those with low-tension glaucoma. Take home message…Ginko probably couldn’t hurt, and it looks like in some patients, it probably could help…it not in you, then certainly in your pet rat!. –Rick Cohn, MD Glaucoma specialist Winter Park, FL

Response:

Laura wrote in news:spmvp0pmps08f2irth5ecijrf96rkaj0q8@4ax.com: > I’m curious what the dosages in these studies were. I’ve been taking > 120 mg. of ginkgo for some months now — the smallest I’d seen > mentioned in clinical studies. > Laura

Laura, If it’s any help, Dr. Ritch posted to the glaucoma yahoo group that he takes 120 mg per day. Sherry

Response:

hep heresy

admin — Fri, 16 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 07:33:14 -0500, elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote: >And I enjoy being beaten about the face and head with baseball bats. >Elmo

Now there you go. All people are different. Me, I hate it when that happens. But you continue doing it if you like it, Elmo. Keith

Response:

Re: hep heresy Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Jul 18, 2004, 12:01am (CDT+7) From: nob…@tatooine.homelinux.net (starwars) In article "Paul2" wrote:

You’re interesting, and because of that I’ll throw you a crumb. Why is it you’re anonymous and without form or substance? What are you hiding from? There is a *stalker*, known as *Mom* who follows me around, yaknow. I keep telling her I *will not* date her, but she just can’t help herself. It’s my bright blue eyes that do it yaknow. Hammy helps her. //////// I know Mom and she would never stalk anybody much less want a date with a low-life like you. ahahahahahahaha Elmo http://community.webtv.net/elmoemerson/DocElmosHepFile

Response:

Re: hep heresy Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 10:02am (CDT+7) From: nob…@tatooine.homelinux.net (starwars) In article <28642-40FD1027-…@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net> elmoemer…@webtv.net wrote:

Re: hep heresy Group: alt.support.hepatitis-c Date: Sun, Jul 18, 2004, 12:01am (CDT+7) From: nob…@tatooine.homelinux.net (starwars) In article "Paul2" wrote:

You’re interesting, and because of that I’ll throw you a crumb. Why is it you’re anonymous and without form or substance? What are you hiding from? There is a *stalker*, known as *Mom* who follows me around, yaknow. I keep telling her I *will not* date her, but she just can’t help herself. It’s my bright blue eyes that do it yaknow. Hammy helps her. //////// I know Mom and she would never stalk anybody much less want a date with a low-life like you. ahahahahahahaha Elmo Can you tell *Mom* that it is over between us and I am going to France to train as a *dark com

Eyes OK

admin — Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

That’s excellent news Keith! Discontinuing TX is the last thing I would want to do as well. Have yet to go to an eye doctor, and my vision seems to fluctuate often. Kill that dragon…..kill that dragon……..kill that dragon now! Julie "Keith" wrote in message

news:rls7f0hts1j09t8r0rcojk3ieuastt5srb@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My retina is not detaching (which was my fear). It’s only hanging by > a thread because of glaucoma, but it was checked today by my eye doc > and it’s okay. Phew. Don’t know what that was yesterday. He said > the circulation to the optic nerve was probably cut off for a few > minutes, but there’s no lasting problem. So I can continue treatment. > Yay!!! > Keith

Response:

My retina is not detaching (which was my fear). It’s only hanging by a thread because of glaucoma, but it was checked today by my eye doc and it’s okay. Phew. Don’t know what that was yesterday. He said the circulation to the optic nerve was probably cut off for a few minutes, but there’s no lasting problem. So I can continue treatment. Yay!!! Keith

Response:

help

admin — Sun, 23 May 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On 23 May 2004 05:24:34 -0700, roc…@comcast.net (james) wrote: >Am i doing something wrong? I do not seem to get any responses to >questions i ask. I am new to this and wondering if there is something >i should know.

Hey James. Most of us fit into the ‘have glaucoma’ category instead of the ‘treat glaucoma’ category. I for one couldn’t answer any of your questions. IANAD and don’t have any experience with any of the problems you’ve mentioned. If you’re still have the problems with feeling nervous and the urinary discomfort, I definitely think you should at least call your doctor and ask if these are expected side-effects or if you should come in for a more thorough exploration of the problem. If he/she won’t talk to you or explain what you need to know, find another doctor. Now *that* I have some experience with, unfortunately. I had some medical concerns about a glaucoma med, doctor blew me off with no explanation, so guess who isn’t billing my insurance company anymore. I’m much happier with my new doctor who takes time to keep me in the treatment loop. Leigh — Consequences, shmonsequences, as long as I’m rich. - D. Duck

Response:

Your posts are reaching the NG.

Response:

Am i doing something wrong? I do not seem to get any responses to questions i ask. I am new to this and wondering if there is something i should know.

Response:

meds

admin — Mon, 19 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

yep. my mom understands quite well. she has been living with ulcerative colitis since she was 18 but she’s been lucky and hasn’t had to have any operations yet. she was quite worried when we found out what was making me sick especially since she knows what comes with having the disease. i’ve already developed artheritis in my hands and knees but my mom says keeping active and eating properly really helps.

Response:

Don’t hesitate to ask questions or just ventilate. And, yes, having an understanding family does help enormously.

Response:

thank you actually 34 for talking with me. it is true that the hospitalization and flare ups are not fun. and if it does come down to it i would rather have the bag and live with it for the rest of my life. my son, who just turned one, deserves to have a mom at home with him and not someone who is constantly in the hospital. i am too finding that i am staring to be able to return to all the things i love to do.and now that i have found this web sight and am getting more info and talking to different people who live with it as well i am feeling more confident plus it halps to be with someone who understands and doesn’t care about the fact that i have a bag on my stomach and having the support of my family has helped too.

Response:

I’m not a doctor, and don’t take what I say as gospel. But it is my understanding that Crohn’s Disease is a systemic disease capable of flaring up anywhere along the digestive tract — from mouth to anus. Surgical removal of the afflicted area is no guarantee that there won’t be a flareup elsewhere. With colitis, on the other hand, removal of the afflicted area usually eliminates the likelihood of a recurrance elsewhere. That’s why surgeons often suggest an irreversible, total ileostomy — including removal of the rectum — for those with Crohn’s Disease. It eliminates multiple surgeries, reduces the likelihood of flareups and wipes out the possibility of rectal or colon cancer. I hope that all goes well with you and that you are able to have a reversal. I certainly understand the fears and concerns that a 24-year-old would have with the prospect of a permanent ileostomy. But I’ll assure you, should it ever come to that with you, that there are worse things in life than "living with a bag" — including continual flareups and hospitalizations, long bouts of prednisone and living under a cloud of colon cancer. This "bag" has given me a new lease on life — and it is an active and wonderful life. There are no restrictions on what I can do (except sleep flat on my stomach). I doubt that anyone knows I’m wearing an appliance, unless I’ve specially told them. I bicycle, swim, kayak, hike, am intimate with my wife, wrestle with my kids, eat what I want to eat and am far healthier than when I was living with Crohn’s flareups.

Response:

thank you actually 34. you have given me some helpful information. and to clarify the crohn’s was in the middle part of my large intestine, i am told this is very rare, and i was given the option and since i didn’t know anything about the disease and i am only 24 i wanted to be able to get rid of this bag.

Response:

tjb wrote: > I was diagnosed with crohn’s colitis Nov 2003 after being sick for a month. > I was so sick I was on the verge of death by the time I finally got to > the hospital and was diagnosed. The doctors removed part of my large > intestine and I now have a stoma with a chance for reversal ( the doctors > said 4-8 months) since the surgery they have found colitis is my remaining > rectum and i am on Imuran and prednisone to try to clear it up. Dose > anyone know anything about these drugs?

I don’t know much but I know that you should definitely not stop taking the prednione suddenly. Even with the slow reduction in dose when I came off them I was a bit mentally affected. It wasn’t fun. Rob

Response:

I’m not a doctor, but I can give you a lay person’s perspective about both drugs. Prednisone is a steroid commonly used to control inflammation (anything from poison ivy to Crohn’s Disease). It is very commonly used to treat Crohn’s and colitis flareups. It can work well, but depending on the dosage and the length of time you are on it, it can have adverse side affects. They include weight gain, thinning of bones, moon face, insomnia, increased appetite and mood swings. Rare adverse affects include glaucoma, diabetis and psychosis. It is an inexpensive drug that is widely used, but some people (including me) find the side effects are almost as disagreeable as the condition it is used to treat. There is a newer form of steroid that primarily treats the lower intestine that involves less steroid being absorbed in the body. There also are steroid suppositories that can be used in the rectum to treat rectal inflammation with less drug absorbed in the body. As another writer suggested, you have to taper off the drug very, very gradually. I have been on Imuran for about 8 years. It was developed primarily to suppress the immune system so people who have organ transplants don’t reject donated organs. It has also commonly been used in much lower doses (50-100 mgs a day) as a treatment for Crohn’s and colitis. It takes quite awhile for Imuran to kick in, so often people are intially put on prednisone, which acts quickly, and then tapered off of it as the Imuran kicks in. In high dosagages used for kidney transplants there are elevated risks of leukemia and liver problems. Although these are not much of a concern at lower doses, most people on Imuran therapy are given quarterly blood tests to ensure that their white cell count isn’t adversely affected. Some people experience slight nausea initially while taking Imuran. It usually subsides after a week or so. I’ve been on Imuran for 8 years. I notice no adverse affects from it. It has not caused any increase in infections or colds. Inasmuch as you have Crohn’s, which is a systemmic disease, I’m somewhat surprised the doctor’s retained your rectum and offered the possibility of a reversal. I’d be inclined to have the rectum remove.

Response:

I was diagnosed with crohn’s colitis Nov 2003 after being sick for a month. I was so sick I was on the verge of death by the time I finally got to the hospital and was diagnosed. The doctors removed part of my large intestine and I now have a stoma with a chance for reversal ( the doctors said 4-8 months) since the surgery they have found colitis is my remaining rectum and i am on Imuran and prednisone to try to clear it up. Dose anyone know anything about these drugs?

Response:

Leg Cramps

admin — Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I was diagnosed yesterday after visiting my doctor a few weeks ago. Very thirsty, mucho trips to the toilet, and a family history, so it didn’t come as too much of a surprise. BG was 18.2 in the blood test, and has fluctuated between 16.3 and 12.4 since I started testing myself. I’m seeing the dietician tomorrow, and they will monitor me over the next three months before they decide if medication is required. I presume this is the standard regime. One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination? TIA Chris Quinn

Response:

You’re certainly not alone with that one. Its something I had forgotten about. This happened to me a couple of times before diagnosis and I had forgotten about it after all of the other things I had to think about. It has stopped since I got my bloods under control and my weight down . As I recall it was also in the leg where I have necrobiosis. Do you happen to have something like a rash or patches on the skin over your shinbone on either leg? (Necrobiosis Lipoidica Diabeticorum – Its not dangerous) The other thing that occurs to me is sleep apnoea – where you stop breathing during the night. If you snore, you may have periods where you stop breathing and this may cause problems with not enough oxygen getting to the leg muscles. Again that has got easier for me as my weight has come down. Any idea if you have apnoea? Your bloods are very similar to mine at the point of diagnosis (dx). I was put onto Metformin straight away. An more aggressive approach but it varies between places and medics. What is best depends on you. The threat of meds helps some people to get themselves sorted out. For some, once they have the meds, they get to thinking that the meds take care of it and they do not have to bother doing anything. Anyway, I am sure you will have a few questions as time goes on. Welcome – sorry to had to join us. VBH Dx(Oct-03) : A1c 10.2 : 102Kg Latest : A1c: 6.1 : 85Kg : Met 3×500

Response:

Thanks for the quick reply – as far as I’m aware I don’t have apnoea or necrobiosis – my legs are fine apart from the cramps. I also don’t seem to have muscle wastage – my thoughts were that as I have consciously reduced the amount of salt I use in food, and I am flushing my system out due to the diuresis, I might be suffering from low sodium levels, which is a known cause of cramps. Should I reach for the salt cellar again, or start taking ORT powders (Oral Rehydration Therapy – the sort of stuff you give to babies with the trots)? DX 15/3/04 T2 – Just diet for now (and hopefully for the foreseeable future)!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the quick reply – as far as I’m aware I don’t have apnoea or necrobiosis – my legs are fine apart from the cramps. I also don’t seem to have muscle wastage – my thoughts were that as I have consciously reduced the amount of salt I use in food, and I am flushing my system out due to the diuresis, I might be suffering from low sodium levels, which is a known cause of cramps. Should I reach for the salt cellar again, or start taking ORT powders (Oral Rehydration Therapy – the sort of stuff you give to babies with the trots)? DX 15/3/04 T2 – Just diet for now (and hopefully for the foreseeable future)!

Hi Chris i used to suffer from cramp like that a lot. Sometimes it was so bad it would effect my walking sometimes for days. Since being diagnosed and getting treatment though I think I have only sufferd once in four years. I guess you should see a big change. One of the plusses! Terry

Response:

Chris, I was diagnosed a few weeks ago, before my diagnosis (and for a few days after) I suffered from leg cramps. I was told that this was ‘quite common’ by my diabetic nurse. I have found that since I have got my blood sugar levels under control it has completely gone away. Have a look at this site for starters, people here pointed me towards it and I found it very useful: http://jennifer.flyingrat.net All the best, Steve.

Response:

Should I reach for the salt cellar again, or start taking ORT powders (Oral Rehydration Therapy – the sort of stuff you give to babies with the trots)? DX 15/3/04 T2 – Just diet for now (and hopefully for the foreseeable future)!

Chris, I certainly had leg cramps at night before my T2 was diagnosed and treated – can’t remember the last time I had cramps now. One of the things my doctor suggested was quinine so you might want to try a diet tonic water or bitter lemon drink defore you go to bed. NK

Response:

Hi Chris. Did they tell you your HbA1c? The diabetes may exacerbate the cramps, but I don’t think it’s a cause. I’ve had them for years, but they have reduced in frequency since my control improved. However, I notice the same question recurring on my other medical list, which has nothing to do with diabetes. The only common factor is that none of those getting cramps appear to be younger than forty. One tip – I found that wearing bed-sox helped in cold weather. On gaining control. To find out how to test yourself appropriately, and what to do with the information you get from the tests, go to http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ and read Jennifer’s advice there. Read it twice. In my opinion, that was the single most important thing I read after diagnosis. Start with the diet the dietician suggests, but test it against Jennifer’s recommendations and adjust. If in any doubt, go back to the dietician with your test results. Or come here to compare notes. To help get those high numbers down, and until you know what they do to you, I’d drop all the white starches immediately – bread, rice, potatoes, sweet corn or corn products etc. And minimise fruit and all their juices. You may be able to add them back in once you gain some control. You will learn that you need to forget all your preconceptions about eating. There is no law that you must eat only three meals a day, or that you must eat toast and cereal for breakfast. Ham and egg are fine for me. I must admit that I’m surprised at your medics’ caution in delaying treatment with numbers like yours. Hopefully, the dietary changes and testing will get them down quickly, but if it doesn’t improve I certainly wouldn’t wait three months before asking them for a re-assessment. Enough for now before I put you into information overload. Just remember to read Jennifer. And good luck. PS – with numbers like that, you may get the shakes or feel woozy as you start to get them down. That’s usually a sign that your BGs are at the other extreme. Carry some sweets (jelly beans or similar) in your pocket with you for emergency use if that occurs, or try to get a fruit juice or sugared soft drink. Pull over immediately if you get the shakes while driving. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=90kg, No diabetes meds.Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed yesterday after visiting my doctor a few weeks ago. Very thirsty, mucho trips to the toilet, and a family history, so it didn’t come as too much of a surprise. BG was 18.2 in the blood test, and has fluctuated between 16.3 and 12.4 since I started testing myself. I’m seeing the dietician tomorrow, and they will monitor me over the next three months before they decide if medication is required. I presume this is the standard regime. One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination? TIA Chris Quinn You’re certainly not alone with that one. Its something I had forgotten about. This happened to me a couple of times before diagnosis and I had forgotten about it after all of the other things I had to think about. It has stopped since I got my bloods under control and my weight down . As I recall it was also in the leg where I have necrobiosis. Do you happen to have something like a rash or patches on the skin over your shinbone on either leg? (Necrobiosis Lipoidica Diabeticorum – Its not dangerous) The other thing that occurs to me is sleep apnoea – where you stop breathing during the night. If you snore, you may have periods where you stop breathing and this may cause problems with not enough oxygen getting to the leg muscles. Again that has got easier for me as my weight has come down. Any idea if you have apnoea? Your bloods are very similar to mine at the point of diagnosis (dx). I was put onto Metformin straight away. An more aggressive approach but it varies between places and medics. What is best depends on you. The threat of meds helps some people to get themselves sorted out. For some, once they have the meds, they get to thinking that the meds take care of it and they do not have to bother doing anything. Anyway, I am sure you will have a few questions as time goes on. Welcome – sorry to had to join us. VBH Dx(Oct-03) : A1c 10.2 : 102Kg Latest : A1c: 6.1 : 85Kg : Met 3×500 Thanks for the quick reply – as far as I’m aware I don’t have apnoea or necrobiosis – my legs are fine apart from the cramps. I also don’t seem to have muscle wastage – my thoughts were that as I have consciously reduced the amount of salt I use in food, and I am flushing my system out due to the diuresis, I might be suffering from low sodium levels, which is a known cause of cramps.

Chris, the calf cramps were the very first symptom I ever had and after getting my ssugars back where hey belong, I’ve not been trubled by them UNTIL I cut back on the salt. My doc prescribed Quinine Sulphate, but I prefer a sprinkle if salt again. The salt isn’t used in quantity, just one quick sprinkle on my main meal and the cramps were gone again. I think the salt is a better option than the Quinine. Should I reach for the salt cellar again, or start taking ORT powders (Oral Rehydration Therapy – the sort of stuff you give to babies with the trots)?

I’m not saying YOU should, but I’d go with a TINY bit of salt. My gran always used to say that if you’re short of salt, your body will tell you by making it taste good, and vice versa. I think she had a point too because sometimes I can’t bear the thought of salt on a meal and at other times I want to leather the stuff on (I resist though). Just a "lick" as she’d say. Beav

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed yesterday after visiting my doctor a few weeks ago. Very thirsty, mucho trips to the toilet, and a family history, so it didn’t come as too much of a surprise. BG was 18.2 in the blood test, and has fluctuated between 16.3 and 12.4 since I started testing myself. I’m seeing the dietician tomorrow, and they will monitor me over the next three months before they decide if medication is required. I presume this is the standard regime. One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination? TIA Chris Quinn Hi Chris. Did they tell you your HbA1c? The diabetes may exacerbate the cramps, but I don’t think it’s a cause. I’ve had them for years, but they have reduced in frequency since my control improved. However, I notice the same question recurring on my other medical list, which has nothing to do with diabetes. The only common factor is that none of those getting cramps appear to be younger than forty. One tip – I found that wearing bed-sox helped in cold weather. On gaining control. To find out how to test yourself appropriately, and what to do with the information you get from the tests, go to http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ and read Jennifer’s advice there. Read it twice. In my opinion, that was the single most important thing I read after diagnosis. Start with the diet the dietician suggests, but test it against Jennifer’s recommendations and adjust. If in any doubt, go back to the dietician with your test results. Or come here to compare notes. To help get those high numbers down, and until you know what they do to you, I’d drop all the white starches immediately – bread, rice, potatoes, sweet corn or corn products etc. And minimise fruit and all their juices. You may be able to add them back in once you gain some control. You will learn that you need to forget all your preconceptions about eating. There is no law that you must eat only three meals a day, or that you must eat toast and cereal for breakfast. Ham and egg are fine for me. I must admit that I’m surprised at your medics’ caution in delaying treatment with numbers like yours. Hopefully, the dietary changes and testing will get them down quickly, but if it doesn’t improve I certainly wouldn’t wait three months before asking them for a re-assessment. Enough for now before I put you into information overload. Just remember to read Jennifer. And good luck. PS – with numbers like that, you may get the shakes or feel woozy as you start to get them down. That’s usually a sign that your BGs are at the other extreme. Carry some sweets (jelly beans or similar) in your pocket with you for emergency use if that occurs, or try to get a fruit juice or sugared soft drink. Pull over immediately if you get the shakes while driving. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=90kg, No diabetes meds.Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher.

Hellfire. I get cramps too. And backache, and shoulder ache, and no sex. Mind you I look youong. Donnie " There’s More To Diabetes Than Meets The Eye" Falcone PS I have Glaucoma too

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was diagnosed yesterday after visiting my doctor a few weeks ago. Very thirsty, mucho trips to the toilet, and a family history, so it didn’t come as too much of a surprise. BG was 18.2 in the blood test, and has fluctuated between 16.3 and 12.4 since I started testing myself. I’m seeing the dietician tomorrow, and they will monitor me over the next three months before they decide if medication is required. I presume this is the standard regime. One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination? TIA Chris Quinn Hi Chris. Did they tell you your HbA1c? The diabetes may exacerbate the cramps, but I don’t think it’s a cause. I’ve had them for years, but they have reduced in frequency since my control improved. However, I notice the same question recurring on my other medical list, which has nothing to do with diabetes. The only common factor is that none of those getting cramps appear to be younger than forty. One tip – I found that wearing bed-sox helped in cold weather. On gaining control. To find out how to test yourself appropriately, and what to do with the information you get from the tests, go to http://jennifer.flyingrat.net/ and read Jennifer’s advice there. Read it twice. In my opinion, that was the single most important thing I read after diagnosis. Start with the diet the dietician suggests, but test it against Jennifer’s recommendations and adjust. If in any doubt, go back to the dietician with your test results. Or come here to compare notes. To help get those high numbers down, and until you know what they do to you, I’d drop all the white starches immediately – bread, rice, potatoes, sweet corn or corn products etc. And minimise fruit and all their juices. You may be able to add them back in once you gain some control. You will learn that you need to forget all your preconceptions about eating. There is no law that you must eat only three meals a day, or that you must eat toast and cereal for breakfast. Ham and egg are fine for me. I must admit that I’m surprised at your medics’ caution in delaying treatment with numbers like yours. Hopefully, the dietary changes and testing will get them down quickly, but if it doesn’t improve I certainly wouldn’t wait three months before asking them for a re-assessment. Enough for now before I put you into information overload. Just remember to read Jennifer. And good luck. PS – with numbers like that, you may get the shakes or feel woozy as you start to get them down. That’s usually a sign that your BGs are at the other extreme. Carry some sweets (jelly beans or similar) in your pocket with you for emergency use if that occurs, or try to get a fruit juice or sugared soft drink. Pull over immediately if you get the shakes while driving. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=90kg, No diabetes meds.Diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be an expensive teacher. Hellfire. I get cramps too. And backache, and shoulder ache, and no sex. Mind you I look youong. Donnie " There’s More To Diabetes Than Meets The Eye" Falcone PS I have Glaucoma too

I’ve been suffering from no sex for a while as well – nothing to do with Diabetes though – wish I had that excuse – maybe I’ve turned ugly since my divorce! Thanks to every one for all the advice – nice to know there are some good folks out there! Chris

Response:

[snip] One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination?

I used to get these (in my calf muscles), but the incidence and disappearance of the cramps didn’t seem to have any correlation with blood glucose control. The doctor told me it had nothing to do with my diabetes, and anecdotal evidence from other diabetics seems to support that. Now something a bit more useful to you – my doctor prescribed me quinine sulphate for these cramps. I had to take the pills a while before going to bed, and then walk around for a bit afterwards, apparently to distribute the quinine around my legs! Despite my scepticism this worked wonderfully; the symptoms improved and then disappeared altogether after a few weeks. I don’t take the quinine any more but if the cramps come back, I will be marching down to my GP and demanding some! Karen/Fox

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The diabetes may exacerbate the cramps, but I don’t think it’s a cause. I’ve had them for years, but they have reduced in frequency since my control improved. However, I notice the same question recurring on my other medical list, which has nothing to do with diabetes. The only common factor is that none of those getting cramps appear to be younger than forty. One tip – I found that wearing bed-sox helped in cold weather. Cheers Alan, T2, Australia. dx May 2002 , A1C 8.2=5.9, wt 117kg=90kg,

Just a quick point. I’ve just turned 33. I’ve had these cramps as Chris described but only before dx, not since. VBH Dx(Oct-03) : A1c 10.2 : 102Kg Latest : A1c: 6.1 : 85Kg : Met 3×500

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] One of the other things that has been happening recently is many incidences of cramp in my calf muscles during the night, causing me to leap from the bed screaming in pain. Is this a known symptom of diabetes, or could it be due to electrolyte flushing caused by drinking too much water followed by constant urination? I used to get these (in my calf muscles), but the incidence and disappearance of the cramps didn’t seem to have any correlation with blood glucose control. The doctor told me it had nothing to do with my diabetes, and anecdotal evidence from other diabetics seems to support that. Now something a bit more useful to you – my doctor prescribed me quinine sulphate for these cramps. I had to take the pills a while before going to bed, and then walk around for a bit afterwards, apparently to distribute the quinine around my legs! Despite my scepticism this worked wonderfully; the symptoms improved and then disappeared altogether after a few weeks. I don’t take the quinine any more but if the cramps come back, I will be marching down to my GP and demanding some! Karen/Fox

I use Quinine Bisulphate; not sure if it’s the same thing. Read your enclosed leaflet and re-check with the doc, there can be some pretty nasty side-effects. I take one when the cramps hit, usually effective within a few minutes. I try to limit them by trying to "walk the cramp off" first. Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia. — Everything in Moderation – Except Laughter.

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My dietician suggested drinking a glass of sugar free tonic water or bitter lemon before bed – they both contain quinine. Only problem is that I can’t stand the taste of either. Then I found that ASDA (large supermarket chain in the UK) do sugar free tonic with lemon or lime flavouring added – it hides the bitter taste a little so I can manage a glassful. I’ll persevere with it and see if it has any effect. Maybe I should try adding some Vodka as well! Chris Q

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I’ve been suffering from no sex for a while as well – nothing to do with Diabetes though – wish I had that excuse – maybe I’ve turned ugly since my divorce!

Send a photo and short biography to Jackie to put on the groups website then we can decide if you’re ugly or not. — Emma – The Chocolate Monster The Alternative Gallery – http://altgallery.shows.it ChocMonsters Ebay clearout has started!- http://tinyurl.com/3xkrz

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CUT ONLY FOR BREVITY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mind you I look youong. Donnie " There’s More To Diabetes Than Meets The Eye" Falcone PS I have Glaucoma too I’ve been suffering from no sex for a while as well – nothing to do with Diabetes though – wish I had that excuse – maybe I’ve turned ugly since my divorce! Thanks to every one for all the advice – nice to know there are some good folks out there! Chris

There are lots of good folks out there, they just don’t get the publicity the scum do. I post on alt.tv.Frasier, Diabetes and Menopause. (For my wife) and they can all be recommended.

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What’s that drink where the rim of the glass is frosted with salt? I dunno coz I’m not a driner, (I call ‘em "Crampaway":-) Have one of them without the drink:-) Beav

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What’s that drink where the rim of the glass is frosted with salt? I dunno coz I’m not a driner, (I call ‘em "Crampaway":-) That would be tequila…

That stuff gives you worms dun’t it? Beav

Response:

Visual Fields Test

admin — Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m wondering if the post below actually made it to the server. I posted on 21 October, but there’s been no replies. I’ve had problems with posting to this ng and another, so… David "David" wrote in message

news:X5Gdnf4YdbFDegiiRVn-hg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi All, > I had a visual fields test today at wills. It seemed both worse and > different from one I had done on 12 Sep 2002. I had a trab done on 5 Feb > 2003, and my pressure is still about five. I didn’t see my doctor today, > but my test seemed worse to both myself (I’m not a doctor and don’t play one > on TV) and the technician (also, not a doctor.) The tech explained to me > the black part is where I didn’t see any of the lights, and the white and > gray areas are where I saw some/most of the lights. Comparing it to the > last fields test I had, the white/gray areas were much smaller. There was > also an area on the last test that was black, but on today’s test, the area > was gray. I was stunned, but not surprised by the side-by-side comparison. > My question is this: Once I have blood injected into my eye to get the > pressure to rise (hopefully, just a couple of points,) will my visual fields > return close to what they were at the time of my last fields test? > Thanks for any info! > David > — > ___________________________________ > "What cannot be cured must be endured." > Edmund Spenser 1552-1599

Response:

I had the same experience! The new device is MUCH faster and quieter. The tech mentioned something about it being more tolerant, or adaptive, to "cockpit errors". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -joyh…@aol.comNOSPAM (JOYHTON) wrote: >Responding to the fatigue issue during visual field tests, my ophthalmologist >recently got a new machine. It’s much faster, not as noisy as his old one, and >I am not so stressed by it. I’ve been doing this test for years, and my last >one was a revelation about how advanced equipment can make this test much >easier on the eyes as well as on the whole person. >Joyce

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"H Glazer" wrote in news:yc8F8.21199$D41.447668@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Yes, I see what you mean. I read somewhere online that the second >> eye > tested >> can have worse results due to fatigue. Maybe next time I could >> start with the left eye. >> eh > That aspect of the visual field test really ticks me off. You’d > think that ophthalmologists would wise up and start giving patients > a significant breather between eyes. Why should they have to look > for a trend — basically guesswork — when they could get accurate > results by letting the patient "recharge"? The cynic in me says > "Follow the money. Managed care means doctors have to herd patients > in and out as quickly as possible." I hope that’s not the case. > Howard

The techs who do my visual fields *ALWAYS* tell me that I can stop anytime and as many times as I need during the test in order to take a break. I usually just fly through it to get it over with. I don’t know how the second eye can get more fatigued than the first eye since it’s basically not doing anything while the first eye is being tested??? Sherry

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Thank you HONG for that info –maybe it is best I turn off my signature with tweety?

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Responding to the fatigue issue during visual field tests, my ophthalmologist recently got a new machine. It’s much faster, not as noisy as his old one, and I am not so stressed by it. I’ve been doing this test for years, and my last one was a revelation about how advanced equipment can make this test much easier on the eyes as well as on the whole person. Joyce

Response:

Andy, I’ve had a few different kinds of field tests, and one thing they all had in common was that they were frustrating in just the way you described. They start off giving you the easy stuff (bright lights) and gradually work their way to the stuff you can barely see (dimmest of dim lights). I believe that’s because they’re trying to ascertain precisely how dim the light can be and you still see it. It’s very frustrating — no matter how dim the spot you can see, the machine can still make it a little dimmer, until it reaches the point where you can’t see it. I’m no doctor, just a longtime patient, and I’ve gone through a lot of medical procedures, including neurosurgery. But I hate that visual field test — and I have to take it again next month. My advice to you is stop trying to psych out the test and just suffer through it as good-naturedly as possible. Best of luck to you, Don Singleton P.S. Your pressure doesn’t sound the least bit alarming — 21 is generally considered the normal high limit, and mine were 28 and 36 when I was diagnosed. So consider yourself lucky! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Andreas Greulich wrote: > Hi, > I’m new to this list as I was only recently diagnosed high IOP > (22mmHg, I’m 36 years old and short-sighted by -8 diop, plus my mother > has high IOP as well), so the doctor made a visual fields test and > found out it was still fine (also he put me on Xalatan). I don’t have > a printout, but will probably ask for it next time (well, I’m curious > . Still, I was confused by the test itself and first thought I must > have gotten a terrible result – I guess I was insufficiently prepared > to it. For example, I wasn’t told that not every beep is followed by a > flash, so one or two fals positives resulted, before I "found out" how > it worked. > What confused me though was the steady reduction of the > flash-intensity over the course of the test. It was not the case, as I > would have expected, that bright and dull flashes were shown randomly; > of course they were mixed a bit, but the tendency was from bright to > dull flashes. Towards the end of the test, I could hardly see any > flashes (if any were shown, but 5 or 6 beeps without flashes at the > end of the test lie a bit out of a statistical range I guess , > hence I first assumed a terrible result, which was quite frustrating – > but it seems I was wrong. Now I’m wondering if the test just has a > "fixed" end, or if it just decreases brightness until nothing is seen > anymore, a point that any person will reach sooner or later – so > anybody would miss the last 5 or 6 flashes of the test, beacsue it is > "defined" this way. Or should a "normal" patient see flashes up to the > very end of the test? > Thanks anyway for the informative link plus all informations on this > list! > Andy > "No Spam" wrote in message … > > "David" wrote in message > > news:n8WdndSpONBaFj2iRVn-vg@comcast.com… > > > I’m wondering if the post below actually made it to the server. I posted > > on > > > 21 October, but there’s been no replies. I’ve had problems with posting > > to > > > this ng and another, so… > > > David > > > "David" wrote in message > > > news:X5Gdnf4YdbFDegiiRVn-hg@comcast.com… > > > > Hi All, > > > > I had a visual fields test today at wills. It seemed both worse and > > > > different from one I had done on 12 Sep 2002. I had a trab done on 5 > > Feb > > > > 2003, and my pressure is still about five. I didn’t see my doctor > > today, > > > > but my test seemed worse to both myself (I’m not a doctor and don’t play > > one > > > > on TV) and the technician (also, not a doctor.) The tech explained to > > me > > > > the black part is where I didn’t see any of the lights, and the white > > and > > > > gray areas are where I saw some/most of the lights. Comparing it to the > > > > last fields test I had, the white/gray areas were much smaller. There > > was > > > > also an area on the last test that was black, but on today’s test, the > > area > > > > was gray. I was stunned, but not surprised by the side-by-side > > comparison. > > > > My question is this: Once I have blood injected into my eye to get the > > > > pressure to rise (hopefully, just a couple of points,) will my visual > > fields > > > > return close to what they were at the time of my last fields test? > > > > Thanks for any info! > > > > David > > Information on how to inteprete the visual field test results, factors > > affecting the accuracy of the test, and other information pertaining to > > glaucoma can be found at: > > http://wills-glaucoma.org/index.htm > > Good luck. > > Sun Chong Hong

Response:

"Paying better attention" is probably part of it. I have had varying test results because of this, especially when you are half way through the second eye being tested. My Dr realizes this and looks mainly for a trend after a series of tests have been performed. "Ellsworth Hall" wrote in message

news:_HhC8.1459$u_3.70942@news.abs.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > I’ve been taking drops for 8 1/2 years now ever since my pressure jumped > from 24 to 39 (I’m 44 years old). So far no optic nerve damage and the drops > keep my pressure in the low 20s. I’ve been told my iris pigment flakes off > and makes my aqueous humor more viscous. > I just took my visual fields test today (what fun!) and my doctor said my > right eye was normal and left eye was borderline, although he said I had > tested better with the left eye than the last time (paying better > attention?). Wondering what he meant by borderline (guess I’ll have to ask) > and why it would be that way if I have no apparent nerve damage. I have no > problems seeing peripherally as far as I can tell. > Any comments? > TIA. > -eh

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Response:

"olfart" wrote in message

news:abcajd$gkru5$1@ID-34582.news.dfncis.de… > "Paying better attention" is probably part of it. I have had varying test > results because of this, especially when you are half way through the second > eye being tested. My Dr realizes this and looks mainly for a trend after a > series of tests have been performed.

Yes, I see what you mean. I read somewhere online that the second eye tested can have worse results due to fatigue. Maybe next time I could start with the left eye. eh

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Iwould bet my BP goes sky High during the pauses on the IOP test ; )

Response:

"David" wrote in message

news:n8WdndSpONBaFj2iRVn-vg@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m wondering if the post below actually made it to the server. I posted on > 21 October, but there’s been no replies. I’ve had problems with posting to > this ng and another, so… > David > "David" wrote in message > news:X5Gdnf4YdbFDegiiRVn-hg@comcast.com… > > Hi All, > > I had a visual fields test today at wills. It seemed both worse and > > different from one I had done on 12 Sep 2002. I had a trab done on 5 Feb > > 2003, and my pressure is still about five. I didn’t see my doctor today, > > but my test seemed worse to both myself (I’m not a doctor and don’t play > one > > on TV) and the technician (also, not a doctor.) The tech explained to me > > the black part is where I didn’t see any of the lights, and the white and > > gray areas are where I saw some/most of the lights. Comparing it to the > > last fields test I had, the white/gray areas were much smaller. There was > > also an area on the last test that was black, but on today’s test, the > area > > was gray. I was stunned, but not surprised by the side-by-side > comparison. > > My question is this: Once I have blood injected into my eye to get the > > pressure to rise (hopefully, just a couple of points,) will my visual > fields > > return close to what they were at the time of my last fields test? > > Thanks for any info! > > David

Information on how to inteprete the visual field test results, factors affecting the accuracy of the test, and other information pertaining to glaucoma can be found at: http://wills-glaucoma.org/index.htm Good luck. Sun Chong Hong

Response:

Hi all, I’ve been taking drops for 8 1/2 years now ever since my pressure jumped from 24 to 39 (I’m 44 years old). So far no optic nerve damage and the drops keep my pressure in the low 20s. I’ve been told my iris pigment flakes off and makes my aqueous humor more viscous. I just took my visual fields test today (what fun!) and my doctor said my right eye was normal and left eye was borderline, although he said I had tested better with the left eye than the last time (paying better attention?). Wondering what he meant by borderline (guess I’ll have to ask) and why it would be that way if I have no apparent nerve damage. I have no problems seeing peripherally as far as I can tell. Any comments? TIA. -eh

Response:

Re: Visual Fields Test Group: alt.support.glaucoma Date: Thu, May 9, 2002, 7:53am From: eh…@bcpl.net (Ellsworth