Elevated bG levels and blurred vision
Question:
When I had my eyes tested earlier this year, the doctor said that bG’s that are too high or too low causes the lens to swell. He’s here at the Univ. of Washington Med. Cntr. and this does correlate with my experiences of blurriness at different times of ate too much, or better get some food in me times. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there are other people out there going through this confusing experience. I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? What causes the blurred vision? I have heard two different stories from physicians. One is the D* changes the fluid in the eyeball and messes up refraction in the eye. The other story I have heard is that D* changes the lens to the eye that it messes up refraction. The bottom line is the increased BG affects the eye and changes the mechanics of vision so the image does not focus on the retnia like it should.
Response:
. I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? What causes the blurred vision? I was told very similar information, with a slight twist. I was told
that the increase in bG causes the osmotic potential in the lens to change and thereby encourage it to absorb more water. This changes the shape of the lens, thereby distorting your vision. This change in vision was my final "warning" that led to my diagnosis.
Response:
First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list.
And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there are other people out there going through this confusing experience.
I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two?
What causes the blurred vision?
I have heard two different stories from physicians. One is the D* changes the fluid in the eyeball and messes up refraction in the eye. The other story I have heard is that D* changes the lens to the eye that it messes up refraction. The bottom line is the increased BG affects the eye and changes the mechanics of vision so the image does not focus on the retnia like it should.
Response:
Reid) writes: The actual cause of visual distortion from high bg is surely more complex.
I believe the cause is osmotic stress on the lens of the eye: high bg in the vitreous causes water to move out of the lens (osmosis). Fluctuations either way will cause optical problems. Stable BGs will stabilize the osmotic flux and vision should then normalize. — -.- Univ. of Geneva, Dept. of Biochemistry, CH-1211 Geneva 4, Switzerland
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=OK, chemistry lesson time for Lyle. Sorry, kid. Don’t worry though, no test. = =Umm, how sugary? Because a bg of 600 mg/dl (33.0 mmol/L) is equivalent to a =rounded teaspoon of sugar in a liter of water (to mix measurement systems as =fluently as you mixed sugar and water), and I don’t think you’d see really =wavy water at that concentration. And it’s likely you never got above 600 for =long even at the worst — kidneys usually spill glucose so fast it doesn’t =rise much higher except in cases of impaired kidney function. = =Also, the wavy effect is probably due to incomplete solution and/or varying =concentration in the glass. Completely dissolved, the sugar should have =little effect. The actual cause of visual distortion from high bg is surely =more complex. I’m sorry, though, I can’t provide an authoritative answer as =to the reason. = =But I do believe that you can read the bottom line of the eye chart now. =Which is slightly better than I can do. OK, continuation of chemistry lesson (not that I don’t think that Ed did a good job; it’s just that there are a couple of points that somebody who’s watched chemistry demos might bring up that Ed didn’t address: OK, so you’ve probably seen a demonstration which seems to contradict Ed’s explanation. Well, in the general case, it does. Yes, there really ARE some liquids whose index of refraction varies enough in response to pressure that just swirling the stuff in a bottle makes a noticeable difference. There are any number of solutions which have that property (sorry, but it’s been more than 20 years since I dealt with them; ask your high school chemistry teacher for examples). The important point to remember was that not a single one of those demonstrations was done with sugar water with a concentration of less than 1 gram/deciliter (though if you get to something close to a saturated solution of sugar in water, I seem to recall that you might see such effects). A saturated solution of sugar in water is closer to 1 gram/ml (10,000 mg/dL) than to even 1 gm/dL. And even 1 gm/dL is above what most folks ever have in their blood and live to tell about it. Now, I’ll admit that some physiological processes can concentrate some specific chemicals incredibly well. I rather doubt, though, that any part of your body will start with ~100mg/dL sugar and concentrate that by a factor of more than 100. Unless, of course, you happen to belong to the genus Acer. I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I’d appreciate it if you’d bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
Response:
dreamed the whole thing, i just mixed up a glass of sugar water and looked through it, and yeah, see that kinda wavy-weird effect
OK, chemistry lesson time for Lyle. Sorry, kid. Don’t worry though, no test. Umm, how sugary? Because a bg of 600 mg/dl (33.0 mmol/L) is equivalent to a rounded teaspoon of sugar in a liter of water (to mix measurement systems as fluently as you mixed sugar and water), and I don’t think you’d see really wavy water at that concentration. And it’s likely you never got above 600 for long even at the worst — kidneys usually spill glucose so fast it doesn’t rise much higher except in cases of impaired kidney function. Also, the wavy effect is probably due to incomplete solution and/or varying concentration in the glass. Completely dissolved, the sugar should have little effect. The actual cause of visual distortion from high bg is surely more complex. I’m sorry, though, I can’t provide an authoritative answer as to the reason. But I do believe that you can read the bottom line of the eye chart now. Which is slightly better than I can do. Edward Reid
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. : And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there : are other people out there going through this confusing experience. : I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred : when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? : What causes the blurred vision? : R. Harwood I am a type I diabetic and know exactly what you are talking about. Three and a half years ago after being diagnosed, after first using insulin I was warned that after having high bg levels for some time, that my vision might be blurred for a few days. Most of a week is more like it. The explination for this (and here is my,"I’m not a doctor" disclaimer) was that amoung the effects of higher bg’s is that the lens of the eye absorbs glucose and changes it focal length. I was far-sighted for a week. Then my eyes adjusted to the new "lens" size. Your eyes may be doing a little absorbing of their own when your bg’s are high. So, yes there is a correlation between the two. David
Ahhh, finally. I have been attempting to respond to this post for the last few days. My newsreader wasn’t letting me for some reason. Anyway, this is exactly what I was going to say. My eye doctor makes me reschedule appointments with him if I happen to have a high blood sugar on the day of the scheduled exam becuase he says it won’t be useful for me to read the eye charts if my sugars high. And, when I got contacts, I was told not to wear them on days when my sugars high because the shape of one’s eye changes then and since contacts are specially fitted for one’s eye, they wont’ fit then and may cause damage. I’ve been really surprised that some responses to this appeared to me to be saying that blurred vision and high blood sugar were not related! (I may have misunderstood, though.) -Heather. (Who has a high blood sugar — "Finals must be approaching, I can feel it in my blood.")
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= And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that = there = are other people out there going through this confusing experience. = I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but = blurred = when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? = What causes the blurred vision? = =I don’t know the answer to your question, specifically (sorry — someone =will, thouth), but I’d like to throw in a closely related topic for even =further discussion. = =I read something interesting in this book called "Reversing Diabetes." I =don’t know if it’s *true* — I just thought it was interesting. The author =(an m.d. whose name I keep forgetting, but if anyone’s interested, e-mail =me and I’ll make a point of writing it down) cited studies that showed =that while people had high bG levels, their vision wasn’t as affected by =retinopathy as it was after they received aggressive insulin therapy, like =with the pump. So the author suggested it was the introduction of large =amounts of insulin to treat the high bG, and not the high bG itself, that =actually caused the retinopathy. Well, first of all, blurred vision doesn’t always indicate retinopathy. Second, some physiological responses are reactions not so much to the absolute level of blood sugar but to the rate at which blood sugar level is varying. Third, sudden decreases in blood sugar level can result in short-term visual problems. Now, just how applicable these facts are to the topic under discussion, I don’t know. I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I’d appreciate it if you’d bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
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: Third, sudden decreases in blood sugar level can result in short-term visual : problems. Yup, that’s when mine happen, during sharp drops. There’s a sparkly effect around the periphery and the middle swims in and out of focus. Sent me madly scrambling with my right hand in the glove compartment for the sweettarts. Tim Myers — Tim Myers Toli the Curious University of Nebraska-Lincoln Shire of Mag Mor
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: I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred : when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two?
Just one more thing for this discussion: I have always been told (I guess not always, but since I was diagnosed 20 years ago 
, to make sure my bgs are under control when I get new glasses prescriptions. So I broke my glasses (lost the lens) right before I got my pump (back in October). So I went without glasses until now because I wanted to let my bgs stabilize after getting the pump before I got an eye exam. It has occured to be many times though, that back when I was badly controlled all the time, wouldn’t it have made sense to get glasses prescriptions that fit my "out-of-control blurry vision" instead of just getting glasses to correct the non-bg-related blurry vision? Just a thought – betsy.
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: First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. : And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there : are other people out there going through this confusing experience. : I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred : when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? : What causes the blurred vision? : R. Harwood I am a type I diabetic and know exactly what you are talking about. Three and a half years ago after being diagnosed, after first using insulin I was warned that after having high bg levels for some time, that my vision might be blurred for a few days. Most of a week is more like it. The explination for this (and here is my,"I’m not a doctor" disclaimer) was that amoung the effects of higher bg’s is that the lens of the eye absorbs glucose and changes it focal length. I was far-sighted for a week. Then my eyes adjusted to the new "lens" size. Your eyes may be doing a little absorbing of their own when your bg’s are high. So, yes there is a correlation between the two. David I think my signature is dead……
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writes: Well, first of all, blurred vision doesn’t always indicate retinopathy. Second, some physiological responses are reactions not so much to the absolute level of blood sugar but to the rate at which blood sugar level is varying. Third, sudden decreases in blood sugar level can result in short-term visual problems. Now, just how applicable these facts are to the topic under discussion, I don’t know.
Well, this brings up a question for me (I don’t think it’s been addressed in this discussion, although it has been approached; I might be wrong). Is the period blurred vision, which comes and goes, in *any* way related to retinopathy? Or is that unknown? Lori.
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=Part of my original point is that even very high bG levels are actually =still pretty dilute glucose solutions: a 1000 mg/dl solution of glucose =is only 1 weight percent glucose — and glucose has a solubility of =about 60 weight percent in water (at least that’s where my CRC stops =listing values for solution properties!). At much higher concentrations, =(where Lyle did her experiments) glucose does indeed have a =much higher refractive index than pure water: a 60 wt% glucose =solution has a refractive index of about 1.44, and I don’t doubt that =there is a big dispersion effect. I wonder how applicable this =is to the MUCH more dilute solutions actually encountered in the body. = = =With that said, though, I’ll admit that I don’t know a whole lot about =that physiology of eyes, and the weird stuff that might happen when they =are subjected to high bG levels. And there may well be more than one =thing going on. Some interesting questions which I think are relevant: = =1) Is glucose concentrated in the eyes when bG is high (ie, is there = a much higher concentration in the eyes than in the blood?)? If = so, then refractive index and dispersion could play a bigger role. = =2) How do increased glucose levels affect the optical properties of = the gelatanous goop inside of the eyes? The eyes are filled with = jelly (of a sort), which might act differently than simple aqueous = solutions. = =3) Are there regions in the eye which have differing glucose concentrations? = We’ve all seen the distortion of "heat" rising from a road, a stove = etc; the refractive index of air changes with temperature, and non- = uniformities in temperature can lead to distortion effects. So, = even though we might not notice any differences if glucose was = distributed uniformly, we might see distortions if its distribution = is patchy. (This might be some of what Lyle saw in her experiments.) And a related question is, "how do blood sugar levels affect the pressure inside the eye?" Increased pressure (e.g., glaucoma) would tend to affect the shape of the eyeball, which could result in changes of vision. I try very hard to say exactly what I mean. I’d appreciate it if you’d bear that in mind and not try to "interpret" my posts to fit your own preconceived notions if I’m posting in a serious thread. Remember: If you throw a strawman into a heated debate, flames are likely to be the result.
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[yaddayaddaya - stuff about vision] is patchy. (This might be some of what Lyle saw in her experiments.)
i just want to thank kelly sincerely for the generous references to my horrible early diabetic care as ‘experiments’ . i’m serious. folks who have been reading this group for a while know that i have little but negative feelings for my childhood as a whole and the diabetes part of it especially. but i think if i started regarding the whole of my two *decades* of bloodsugars always in the 300-600 range (i’m guessing, but you have to understand how sick i felt most of the time: both sugars and ketones were bloody high) as an experiment, something that anybody else might benefit from some way or other, i could start feeling like that time wasn’t such a waste after all. thanks, kelly, that’s the first time in a long time i’ve smiled when thinking about my childhood diabetes. lyle, who remembers cornell as a non-stop chain of ice cream sundaes, mixed drinks, and gooey cakes from the university cafeterias, for which it never occurred to her to adjust her insulin [why i'm in good health now i'll *never* know]
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hm, i never had your luck with bringing things into focus: couldn’t do that no matter what i tried. but i’m wondering: for me, "blurry" isn’t really the best word for what happened to my vision, it was rather more prism-y?, kind of crystalline? sort of wavy-weird…. the first time i ever looked through a glass of water that had a bunch of sugar dissolved in it, it looked so much like my vision at its worst that it made sense to me that i must be looking through some kind of sugar solution. if all that’s happening is a hardening of the lens, how do you explain the sugar-solution-ish distortion?
The effect that Lyle is talking about is known in optics as dispersion. It is caused by a wavelength-dependence of the refractive index. It is very common in all types of optical systems and is very difficult to eliminate, since all materials will exhibit it to some extent. The observation of increased dispersion favors the theory that this glucose-dependent vision problem originates in the alteration of the refractive indices of materials in the eye. — Steve Kirchoefer Naval Research Laboratory Washington, DC 20375-5347
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hm, i never had your luck with bringing things into focus: couldn’t do that no matter what i tried. but i’m wondering: for me, "blurry" isn’t really the best word for what happened to my vision, it was rather more prism-y?, kind of crystalline? sort of wavy-weird…. the first time i ever looked through a glass of water that had a bunch of sugar dissolved in it, it looked so much like my vision at its worst that it made sense to me that i must be looking through some kind of sugar solution. if all that’s happening is a hardening of the lens, how do you explain the sugar-solution-ish distortion? The effect that Lyle is talking about is known in optics as dispersion. It is caused by a wavelength-dependence of the refractive index. It is very common in all types of optical systems and is very difficult to eliminate, since all materials will exhibit it to some extent. The observation of increased dispersion favors the theory that this glucose-dependent vision problem originates in the alteration of the refractive indices of materials in the eye.
Part of my original point is that even very high bG levels are actually still pretty dilute glucose solutions: a 1000 mg/dl solution of glucose is only 1 weight percent glucose — and glucose has a solubility of about 60 weight percent in water (at least that’s where my CRC stops listing values for solution properties!). At much higher concentrations, (where Lyle did her experiments) glucose does indeed have a much higher refractive index than pure water: a 60 wt% glucose solution has a refractive index of about 1.44, and I don’t doubt that there is a big dispersion effect. I wonder how applicable this is to the MUCH more dilute solutions actually encountered in the body. With that said, though, I’ll admit that I don’t know a whole lot about that physiology of eyes, and the weird stuff that might happen when they are subjected to high bG levels. And there may well be more than one thing going on. Some interesting questions which I think are relevant: 1) Is glucose concentrated in the eyes when bG is high (ie, is there a much higher concentration in the eyes than in the blood?)? If so, then refractive index and dispersion could play a bigger role. 2) How do increased glucose levels affect the optical properties of the gelatanous goop inside of the eyes? The eyes are filled with jelly (of a sort), which might act differently than simple aqueous solutions. 3) Are there regions in the eye which have differing glucose concentrations? We’ve all seen the distortion of "heat" rising from a road, a stove etc; the refractive index of air changes with temperature, and non- uniformities in temperature can lead to distortion effects. So, even though we might not notice any differences if glucose was distributed uniformly, we might see distortions if its distribution is patchy. (This might be some of what Lyle saw in her experiments.) Does anybody know the answers to these questions? Unless any of these is a big effect, I still think that a change in the mechanical properties of the lens is a more reasonable explanation, and is consistent with my own experience (an experiment which I strongly desire NOT to repeat). Mechanical properties of gels can change dramatically with only little changes in structure (ever see cement harden), but refractive index doesn’t change a whole lot. Kelly Miller
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writes: I think the author is Julian Whitaker. I’ve heard good things about that book, but I’ve never seen it. I presume it’s aimed at Type II’s only, though Type I’s might receive some benefit as well.
Yes, that is the author’s name, and that is almost the same wording he uses to describe the book’s target audience and purpose. Lori/
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AA First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to AA this list. And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring AA to learn that there are other people out there going through this AA confusing experience. AA I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, AA but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a AA correlation between the two? AA What causes the blurred vision? "Welome to the club." Of course I say that with tongue in cheek. When I was first diagnosed with DM, my doctor was very quick to suggest that I join a diabetes support group which was a series of once-a-week classes given by two nurses connected with our local hospital. That did a lot to disspell a lot of the fear that one has with being diagnosed. I would suggest that you look to see if you have that available in your area. It will answer a lot of questions for you. (I wish I had know about m.h.d a couple of years ago.) In addition to the more obvious side effect of neuropathies in the extremities, the effect that DM has on the eyes is also a great concern. My doctor has insisted that I have a yearly eye exam with nothing less than a ophthalmologist. Let your doctor know of your blurred vision and its correlation with your bg levels, but my bet is that he’ll/she’ll have you get an in-depth eye exam so you can track the effects, if any, on your eyes. * * * * * VOX EMISSA VOLAT; "The spoken word flies away; * * LITERA SCRIPTA MANET the written one remains" * * * * RM 1.3 * Eval Day 6 * RoboMail — The next generation QWK compatible reader!
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First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there are other people out there going through this confusing experience. I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? What causes the blurred vision? R. Harwood
R. Harwood is not, I think, talking about diabetic retnopathy, which doesn’t, I think, clear and blurr on an hour by hour basis. I noticed this clearing/blurring effect fifteen to twenty years ago, when I was poorly controlled (one injection a day). I can’t remember it happening in the past ten. — Patricia Reynolds
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When a doctor finally got to me and put me in the hospital, they told me that the blurred vision was a result of excess sugar building up in my system and causing the refractive index of the water in my eyes to build up. (made sense to me, and should to you if you’ve taken any physics). About two days later, it completely cleared up and my vision was back to 20/20.
Even very high blood glucose levels wouldn’t cause much of a change in refractive index. My CRC handbook gives the refractive index of pure water as 1.3330, and a 1000 mg/dl (56 mmol/l) solution of glucose as 1.3344. In contrast, the refractive index of glass varies from around 1.5 to 1.9 (depending on composition and wavelength). I doubt if such a small refractive index difference could have a big effect on vision. My endo gave me a somewhat different reason, when my vision went bonkers when I was first diagnosed with Type I. She said that the lens of the eye can absorb glucose when bG’s are high, and this makes the lens stiffer, harder to deform. So, the poor overworked eye muscles can’t change the shape of the lens enough to bring things into focus — blurry vision! This is supported by my own experience — if I really concentrated, I could bring things into focus, but it was hard to keep things focused for any length of time. And, of course, the glucose absorbtion of the lens reverses when bG’s are brought back to normal, with vision becoming cleared up about 2 days later. Kelly Miller
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When I was first diagnosed as a type I diabetic, I had lots of problems. One of which was blurred vision, that my optomitrist insisted did not vary like I said it was. When a doctor finally got to me and put me in the hospital, they told me that the blurred vision was a result of excess sugar building up in my system and causing the refractive index of the water in my eyes to build up. (made sense to me, and should to you if you’ve taken any physics). About two days later, it completely cleared up and my vision was back to 20/20. Its
this was certainly my experience. i was perpetually high for the first maybe 25 years of my diabetes, and as a result my vision was always in kind of a state of flux of blurriness. interestingly, my bloodsugars started improving a couple years before any signs of retinopathy appeared (i was, and am, being seen by a top-drawer retinologist, so i’m quite certain of when the retinopathy showed up), and when i finally had to have some lasering done, my vision was actually better than ever and in my right eye my prescription had been *reduced* two diopters. heh. that was before the lasering; when i was checked last week i was 20/15 in both eyes [actually better but he wouldn't let me read the rest of the chart] so methinks it’s time to improve my prescription again… anyway, yeh, i hope most of you don’t know this from experience but i can tell you from decades of it that bloodsugar levels definitely affect vision. i thought, when i was young and cocky, that i could tell whether my bloodsugar had been high or low [over some days] by how blurry my vision was; what i didn’t realize was that it was reflecting how high or *very* high it was: there was nothing low about it. lyle, who in the worst of it, her college years, reduced her insulin by 2/3 just to lose weight, but kept eating as much candy, cake, pies, and donuts as ever, and now, reflecting on her past, counts herself lucky to be alive at all
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Regarding the _Reversing Diabetes_ book and its mention of tight bG control causing retinopathy. It has been observed that new pumpers who previously had sloppy control and now have excellent control, did indeed have unexplained retinopathy at first. Then, the vessels settled down and that slight case of retinopathy reversed as the body normalized. Some pump doctors counsel their patients to go for tight control rather slowly, to help prevent this. The tight-control retinopathy has been observed, but nobody has come up with an explanation for it, that I know of. It goes away though, and that fact wasn’t known when the author wrote the book. I think the author is Julian Whitaker. I’ve heard good things about that book, but I’ve never seen it. I presume it’s aimed at Type II’s only, though Type I’s might receive some benefit as well. Lee Boylan
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even very high blood glucose levels wouldn’t cause much of a change in refractive index. My CRC handbook gives the refractive index of pure water as 1.3330, and a 1000 mg/dl (56 mmol/l) solution of glucose as 1.3344. In contrast, the refractive index of glass varies from around 1.5 to 1.9 (depending on composition and wavelength). I doubt if such a small refractive index difference could have a big effect on vision. My endo gave me a somewhat different reason, when my vision went bonkers when I was first diagnosed with Type I. She said that the lens of the eye can absorb glucose when bG’s are high, and this makes the lens stiffer, harder to deform. So, the poor overworked eye muscles can’t change the shape of the lens enough to bring things into focus — blurry vision! This is supported by my own experience — if I really concentrated, I could bring things into focus, but it was hard to keep things focused for any length of time. And, of course, the glucose absorbtion of the lens reverses when bG’s are brought back to normal, with vision becoming cleared up about 2 days later.
hm, i never had your luck with bringing things into focus: couldn’t do that no matter what i tried. but i’m wondering: for me, "blurry" isn’t really the best word for what happened to my vision, it was rather more prism-y?, kind of crystalline? sort of wavy-weird…. the first time i ever looked through a glass of water that had a bunch of sugar dissolved in it, it looked so much like my vision at its worst that it made sense to me that i must be looking through some kind of sugar solution. if all that’s happening is a hardening of the lens, how do you explain the sugar-solution-ish distortion? lyle, who fared worse in chemistry than in any other class in high school, so don’t come down on me too hard, okay? but, just to see if i dreamed the whole thing, i just mixed up a glass of sugar water and looked through it, and yeah, see that kinda wavy-weird effect when it’s really saturated and you swiggle the glass around? that’s what i used to see when i was real high for a while. (i *am* talking *way* high: a period of bloodsugars of only 200-300 won’t distort my vision noticibly.)
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[attribution challenged software] I read something interesting in this book called "Reversing Diabetes." I don’t know if it’s *true* — I just thought it was interesting. The author (an m.d. whose name I keep forgetting, but if anyone’s interested, e-mail me and I’ll make a point of writing it down) cited studies that showed that while people had high bG levels, their vision wasn’t as affected by retinopathy as it was after they received aggressive insulin therapy, like with the pump. So the author suggested it was the introduction of large amounts of insulin to treat the high bG, and not the high bG itself, that actually caused the retinopathy. Has anyone else ever heard this? I don’t know if this is some "radical new theory" or what. It was the only thing in the book — an inspiring and helpful resource, BTW — that really surprised me.
It was a relatively radical interpretation of the evidence which was maitainable untill longer term studies like the DCCT. Diabetic retinopathy is worse with intensive therapy, as compared to conventional therapy, for the first year or so. By three years the intensive treatment shows significantly better results which continue to outdistance the conventional therapy as time goes on. Charles Coughran
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I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? When I was first diagnosed as a type I diabetic, I had lots of problems. One of which was blurred vision, that my optomitrist insisted did not vary like I said it was. When a doctor finally got to me and put me in the hospital, they told me that the blurred vision was a result of excess sugar building up in my system and causing the refractive index of the water in my eyes to build up. (made sense to me, and should to you if you’ve taken any physics). About two days later, it completely cleared up and my vision was back to 20/20. Its never been blury since, but they told me that it could return if my blood sugar was high, probably for a long period of time. I’m betting this is what is happening to you. _____ / ___ Wes Hardaker / / / Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering –/ / Davis CA 95616 / Recycle /___/ / — _____ / ___ Wes Hardaker / / / Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering –/ / Davis CA 95616 / Recycle /___/ /
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(Steve Kirchoefer) writes: Bringing poorly controlled diabetes under control can cause retinopathy to temporarily worsen due to improved circulation and collateral increased bleeding, but in the long run, people with good control are likely to be better off with regard to their retinopathy. I don’t believe that the evidence exists to conclude that aggressive insulin therapy causes retinopathy.
Actually, the reasons for temporary worsening in SOME patients upon improving control are not known, just as the pathogenesis of diabetic retinopathy is not understood. — -.-
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First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there are other people out there going through this confusing experience. I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? What causes the blurred vision? R. Harwood
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First–thanks to all of the great information that is posted to this list. And as a new diabetic (type II), it has been reassuring to learn that there are other people out there going through this confusing experience. I’ve noticed that my vision is clear when my bG levels are down, but blurred when my bG levels are up. Might there be a correlation between the two? What causes the blurred vision?
I don’t know the answer to your question, specifically (sorry — someone will, thouth), but I’d like to throw in a closely related topic for even further discussion. I read something interesting in this book called "Reversing Diabetes." I don’t know if it’s *true* — I just thought it was interesting. The author (an m.d. whose name I keep forgetting, but if anyone’s interested, e-mail me and I’ll make a point of writing it down) cited studies that showed that while people had high bG levels, their vision wasn’t as affected by retinopathy as it was after they received aggressive insulin therapy, like with the pump. So the author suggested it was the introduction of large amounts of insulin to treat the high bG, and not the high bG itself, that actually caused the retinopathy. Has anyone else ever heard this? I don’t know if this is some "radical new theory" or what. It was the only thing in the book — an inspiring and helpful resource, BTW — that really surprised me. I humbly beg your forgiveness if this topic has been discussed before and some of us newer posters missed it. ;^) Lori.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read something interesting in this book called "Reversing Diabetes." I don’t know if it’s *true* — I just thought it was interesting. The author (an m.d. whose name I keep forgetting, but if anyone’s interested, e-mail me and I’ll make a point of writing it down) cited studies that showed that while people had high bG levels, their vision wasn’t as affected by retinopathy as it was after they received aggressive insulin therapy, like with the pump. So the author suggested it was the introduction of large amounts of insulin to treat the high bG, and not the high bG itself, that actually caused the retinopathy. Has anyone else ever heard this? I don’t know if this is some "radical new theory" or what. It was the only thing in the book — an inspiring and helpful resource, BTW — that really surprised me.
Bringing poorly controlled diabetes under control can cause retinopathy to temporarily worsen due to improved circulation and collateral increased bleeding, but in the long run, people with good control are likely to be better off with regard to their retinopathy. I don’t believe that the evidence exists to conclude that aggressive insulin therapy causes retinopathy. — Steve Kirchoefer Naval Research Laboratory Washington, DC 20375-5347
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