I'm Nervous – Abstaining From Pain Relief
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Don’t know whether or not abstaining from your meds will help with the pain, but here’s some hugs to get you through til the pain gets better. BTW, have you tried Imitrex? It works for some people, and not for others. — Vicky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all (posted to a.s.h.m. to let folks there know I am still alive), I just went to my pain doc today and things didn’t go quite as planned and now I am bit nervous. The cause of my concern stems from me bringing up the subject of my problems (he already knew about the problems from my last visit) w/ Oxycontin (quickly developed tolerance). I have actually been able to get to a tolerance plateau (I can now count on the same doseage working each time) by taking a few days off here and there, but I would much rather have something I can use ANY time I need it. I wanted to ask the doc about switching to another med (e.g., MS Contin) for a while, assuming I was not already equally tolerant to it, to reverse my Oxycontin tolerance. In other words, I thought it might be possible to switch back and forth so I would always have something I could use in reasonable doseages. Anyway, he was in a hurry (an earlier surgery had gone over – not really his fault), and I just got started into asking about this, when he got the idea that perhaps I should take a break from narcotics entirely. I can’t argue that it may be of help to me, I have certainly seen plenty of anecdotal evidence of symptoms improving by reducing/eliminating meds. I didn’t really want to object to this too much, to avoid med-seeking behavior, so I went along with it. What scares me is being without my "safety net." In a nutshell, I have gotten used to having my Oxycontin on hand to rescue me from the worst pain days. Even when I don’t use it (or even when I don’t even need it), it helps me to get by, just knowing that I have something that works available and within my reach, for the worst of times. This security has done wonders to lower my overall anxiety level. I know that this is something I need to do (even if only to tell other docs that I have tried it), but I am anxious about upcoming flare-ups in my pain. I have no concern about withdrawal, even taking over 110 mg oxycodone/day when I take it, since I have stretches of low-pain days where I take none and have no problems. My concern is having a day when the pain maxes out and my family needs me (e.g., my wife gets ill) in a way that accentuates the pain (i.e., lots of arm/shoulder use) and not having the "antidote" for pain. Any comments, especially from veterans of similar trials, are appreciated. — John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL. Visit our humble home page at http://www.primenet.com/~nojunkmmart/index.html
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John – I can certainly hear your fear and frustration coming through in your words – my thoughts exactly at times. I’m just over 2 months post-op with an anterior cervical diskectomy and fusion at 2 levels – don’t think I haven’t thought – what if the pain comes back someday soon – or even scarier – since it’s been getting a little warmer up here in NJ, I’ve been taking the collar off for short periods of time to allow my neck to "breathe" and it worries me that the left side of my neck (where most of the damage was, and most of the "debridement" took place) hurts quite a bit. I keep telling myself that it’s just being in the collar so long, it’ll go away – but a small part of me doesn’t believe it. Well – I had to come to the decision that if anything like that happens, I’m just gonna have to cross that bridge when I come to it – scream long and loudly at my Ortho and Neuro’s offices, aggresively seek out Pain Management places (which I started doing before the surgery), or even go to the E.R. for an acute episode if I have to. I know that may not be of much comfort to you right now, I’m sorry if it’s not, but I just decided it was easier for me to accept that way of thinking than constantly spending my time worrying about "what if" – know what I mean? I understand where you’re coming from, don’t get me wrong – the other suggestion I had for you is to maybe catch the Doc on a day when he’s not so rushed coming in from a late surgery and explaining all your feelings to him, if you think he’d listen – you could call his office ahead of time and say you need some unrushed "quiet time" with him – they usually understand that – and if they don’t, maybe it’s time to go elsewhere? Not a statement – just a question – depends on how you feel – I don’t like my Ortho. very much and at times have difficulty dealing with him and have had to get "aggresive" with him a few times, but I know he’s tops in his field, and I get along great with my Neuro, so I traded in "touchy-feely" (said FIRMLY tongue-in-cheek <BG) moments with my Ortho. for knowing I have the best, know what I mean? I certainly wish you luck in whatever you decide, I know how traumatic and worrisome this must be for you right now! :( – Heidi and Tony –
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Yes, have you tried Imitrex? or Zomig? or DHE? or anything else that aborts the attack without narcotics? (Sorry, if you have and they don’t work.) My almost-dailies were first diagnosed by my doc as rebounds, but they did not respond to the elimination of offending drugs – in my case, cafergot and caffeine in other forms. Even so, my doc doesn’t give narcotics to migraine patients unless he must, e.g., you’re pregnant. You probably don’t fall in that category….;) Since Imitrex, I’m among the living again. Doc once cut back on that, wondering if it was rebounding. (It wasn’t, and now he says it apparently doesn’t.) Benedryl, if you’re allowed to have it, is an OTC that will at least help you sleep or doze through the pain. Good luck — Julianne
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One thing that I would recomend, now that you have decided to attempt to go without for a while, is to keep a simple diary of the levels of pain that you experience durring the day. An example would be to take a pain reading at least three times a day at specific times. Either by the clock or by events. You know when I got up my pain was at 7, at lunch it was 8, at bed time it was 9. You can also add in flare ups you may have to do a lot of writing, I did. Try to list what you were doing, what worked to reduce the pain, what you attempted to make the pain less, that kind of thing. This really helped me understand what was happening to me. The other big advantage is that when you take tis to the doctor, he gets a much better idea of how you are doing, and how serious your condition is. Give him a copy. A freind of mine who was having trouble managing his pain with medications, was told by several doctors that his pain could not be that bad from this type of injury. He swore it was. He kept this record, and suddenly his Doc had a change of heart, and in fact was looking to do surgery to correct a problem that was not considered. My friend had Carpel Tunnel and Alder Nerve problems. Now he is on the right amount of meds but feels he could use more. He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps!
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John, I haven’t had any pain meds on hand for a couple years now. Not by choice. Unfortunately I am one of those people who doesn’t get relief from Imitrex, or most other abortive agents. DHE shots sometimes help me, and that’s all I have. Besides the ever present wonder drug, phenergen (for nausea). The safety net I do have is when it gets really bad I go in and say I have to have treatment. Demerol/phenergen/toradol shots. It’s a real pain that I have to wait until I can’t function to get help, but at least help is out there. Doesn’t help a lot with day to day life but it keeps me sane to know that when push comes to shove I will get some relief. Good luck to you. Stephanie in OR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -BR I just went to my pain doc today and things didn’t go quite as planned and<BR now I am bit nervous. The cause of my concern stems from me bringing up the<BR subject of my problems (he already knew about the problems from my last<BR visit) w/ Oxycontin (quickly developed tolerance). I have actually been<BR able to get to a tolerance plateau (I can now count on the same doseage<BR working each time) by taking a few days off here and there, but I would<BR much rather have something I can use ANY time I need it.<BR <BR I wanted to ask the doc about switching to another med (e.g., MS Contin)<BR for a while, assuming I was not already equally tolerant to it, to reverse<BR my Oxycontin tolerance. In other words, I thought it might be possible to<BR switch back and forth so I would always have something I could use in<BR reasonable doseages.<BR <BR Anyway, he was in a hurry (an earlier surgery had gone over – not really<BR his fault), and I just got started into asking about this, when he got the<BR idea that perhaps I should take a break from narcotics entirely. I can’t<BR argue that it may be of help to me, I have certainly seen plenty of<BR anecdotal evidence of symptoms improving by reducing/eliminating meds. I<BR didn’t really want to object to this too much, to avoid med-seeking<BR behavior, so I went along with it. What scares me is being without my<BR "safety net." <BR <BR In a nutshell, I have gotten used to having my Oxycontin on hand to rescue<BR me from the worst pain days. Even when I don’t use it (or even when I don’t<BR even need it), it helps me to get by, just knowing that I have something<BR that works available and within my reach, for the worst of times. This<BR security has done wonders to lower my overall anxiety level.<BR <BR I know that this is something I need to do (even if only to tell other docs<BR that I have tried it), but I am anxious about upcoming flare-ups in my<BR pain. I have no concern about withdrawal, even taking over 110 mg<BR oxycodone/day when I take it, since I have stretches of low-pain days where<BR I take none and have no problems. My concern is having a day when the pain<BR maxes out and my family needs me (e.g., my wife gets ill) in a way that<BR accentuates the pain (i.e., lots of arm/shoulder use) and not having the<BR "antidote" for pain.<BR <BR Any comments, especially from veterans of similar trials, are appreciated.<BR <BR — <BR John Martinez<BR <BR "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am."<BR <BR Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL.<BR <BR Visit our humble home page at http://www.primenet.com/~nojunkmmart/index.html<BR
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I tried Imitrex, Zomig, and DHE, and they just made things worse. Fioricet works for me, but I have to watch the the other edge of that sword – rebound. Actually, the oxycontin is for my myofascial pain; though I still get daily migraines, narcotics don’t make a difference unless it’s enough to totally zone me out (I can relieve my myofascial pain at a lower doseage – one that lets me keep my job 
). Sorry if I confused anyone on a.s.h.m. I was just crossposting there to keep in touch with my fellow migraneurs. John Yes, have you tried Imitrex? or Zomig? or DHE? or anything else that aborts the attack without narcotics? (Sorry, if you have and they don’t work.) My almost-dailies were first diagnosed by my doc as rebounds, but they did not respond to the elimination of offending drugs – in my case, cafergot and caffeine in other forms. Even so, my doc doesn’t give narcotics to migraine patients unless he must, e.g., you’re pregnant. You probably don’t fall in that category….;) Since Imitrex, I’m among the living again. Doc once cut back on that, wondering if it was rebounding. (It wasn’t, and now he says it apparently doesn’t.) Benedryl, if you’re allowed to have it, is an OTC that will at least help you sleep or doze through the pain. Good luck — Julianne
– John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL. Visit our humble home page at http://www.primenet.com/~nojunkmmart/index.html
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… I haven’t had any pain meds on hand for a couple years now. Not by choice. … How many others are "out there" in pain with no pain med’s?! too many jqt….
Hi Karen, I guess we should be careful – some people say they have no pain med’s, and it could mean either they wish they had them, or that they maybe don’t need them. For me it’s pretty simple, as without them I am sure I would not be alive. If I had mild headaches and not severe headaches, then I would probably not "need" them. I do know that I went many years when I was younger with no med’s, and my life was utterly terrible. Now, while I may complain, at least I get some pain medication. It’s a shame it takes decades of suffering (and failed surgeries) to be listened to seriously. Perhaps we can measure victory when we have enough pain medication to throw away extra pain med’s at the end of the month, like sour milk. - jqt –
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… I haven’t had any pain meds on hand for a couple years now. Not by choice. … How many others are "out there" in pain with no pain med’s?! - jqt –
too many jqt…. Karen
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… I haven’t had any pain meds on hand for a couple years now. Not by choice. …
How many others are "out there" in pain with no pain med’s?! - jqt –
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add coronary heart disease to that list Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Watch the Benadryl — or any other antihistamine — if you’ve got asthma, closed-angle glaucoma or protate probs.
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Watch the Benadryl — or any other antihistamine — if you’ve got asthma, closed-angle glaucoma or protate probs.
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But there are lots of people out there in pain, severe pain, that are not able to get any medications simply because their doctors are afraid to give them. Next time a doctor says no you can’t have that ask him why. I know when Dr Hurwitz had his license taken away 2 patients chose suicide because after many times trying to get another doctor to take over the regimen that was laid out AND WORKED they never could find one. People like me with fibromyalgia or RSD are in pain and the doctors can see no reason for it and so are reluctant to prescribe anything. Karen
I think SOME of the "blaming the DEA" (done by doctors) is a handy excuse. If the DEA went away, I predict that MANY doctors will *still* be against prescribing opiates/opioids – for our own safety! At least that’s what they will say. Do you disagree? Things can seem one way and, under scrutiny, be another. Look at the intractable pain laws, which are *supposed* to *help* us, but are sometimes used TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET MEDICATION! My assessment is that society and its perception of us is probably a much larger impediment to getting pain relief than the government. Of course the government has got their hand in it in a big way, but only because society put them there! Look at our friends and relatives, and their reaction to us! "You’re using narcotics? You’re an addict!" This does not come from any federal agency. It stems from a lack of education and understanding about WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE US! If we had society on our side, the fed’s would soon follow – trying to get the government to change, without addressing the governed, may be futile. Don’t get me wrong: I’m all for the march. But there’s this larger march. If a few of you disagree, then I’ll re-think my views entirely and get back with the band! Maybe I had too much coffee today. Or not enough! Just remember that I’m one of you and that I’m on your side regardless. - jqt –
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many others are "out there" in pain with no pain med’s?! too many jqt…. Hi Karen, I guess we should be careful – some people say they have no pain med’s, and it could mean either they wish they had them, or that they maybe don’t need them. For me it’s pretty simple, as without them I am sure I would not be alive. If I had mild headaches and not severe headaches, then I would probably not "need" them. I do know that I went many years when I was younger with no med’s, and my life was utterly terrible. Now, while I may complain, at least I get some pain medication. It’s a shame it takes decades of suffering (and failed surgeries) to be listened to seriously. Perhaps we can measure victory when we have enough pain medication to throw away extra pain med’s at the end of the month, like sour milk. - jqt –
But there are lots of people out there in pain, severe pain, that are not able to get any medications simply because their doctors are afraid to give them. Next time a doctor says no you can’t have that ask him why. I know when Dr Hurwitz had his license taken away 2 patients chose suicide because after many times trying to get another doctor to take over the regimen that was laid out AND WORKED they never could find one. People like me with fibromyalgia or RSD are in pain and the doctors can see no reason for it and so are reluctant to prescribe anything. Karen
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John, Very similar to the story of my life, I’ve been suffering from severe headaches for 31 years and I spent the first 20 with no meds, people may say that I have a vicious imagination but I only started to be treated as a human being and given meds when I started paying taxes, raising my voice when talking with the docs and demanding my meds. *g* coincidence? I dunno….
When I was fourteen, and up until I was about thirty, all my doctors and nurses and caregivers would say, "Oh my! You’re much too young to have so much pain!" Now that I am forty, they’ve finally stopped saying it. Mario (and others with long-time pain): we don’t really know life without pain I guess. This is why I have so much difficulty believing some of the recent "theories" about us, such as the rebound theory (1980s) which purports to blame our medication for our pain. One of our biggest challenges is, What do we do when we get tired of "raising our voices" (as Mario posted)? Talking is a potent trigger of my headaches, so I live in this terrible bubble of self-imposed silence. I try to "speak up" with my written words, but they only go so far. I am glad to have this newsgroup as a place to express my thoughts; yes, even the ones you don’t agree with instantly! Well, I said I was going home. Good hearing from you Mario. Your web pages are a fine addition to some of the pages created by other people here. - jqt –
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I kind of think an additional reason might be fear of lawsuits. My doctors keep saying they want to avoid addiction and rebounds. Add that to government controls and lack of ability to understand our very real pain and you get nothing! I am coming off my 3rd demerol shot since Saturday. I don’t understand why it is preferable to wait until I get so bad I can’t walk rather than giving me pain meds for home use and stopping it in its tracks. Maybe it’s a control issue. I don’t know but my limit is getting really close. I’m just so tired. Hopefully my referral to the pain clinic will come through soon before I break. The doc indicated he would be willing to work with me. I’m not holding my breath though. Stephanie in OR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But there are lots of people out there in pain, severe pain, that are not able to get any medications simply because their doctors are afraid to give them. Next time a doctor says no you can’t have that ask him why. I know when Dr Hurwitz had his license taken away 2 patients chose suicide because after many times trying to get another doctor to take over the regimen that was laid out AND WORKED they never could find one. People like me with fibromyalgia or RSD are in pain and the doctors can see no reason for it and so are reluctant to prescribe anything. Karen I think SOME of the "blaming the DEA" (done by doctors) is a handy excuse. If the DEA went away, I predict that MANY doctors will *still* be against prescribing opiates/opioids – for our own safety! At least that’s what they will say. Do you disagree? Things can seem one way and, under scrutiny, be another. Look at the intractable pain laws, which are *supposed* to *help* us, but are sometimes used TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO GET MEDICATION! My assessment is that society and its perception of us is probably a much larger impediment to getting pain relief than the government. Of course the government has got their hand in it in a big way, but only because society put them there! Look at our friends and relatives, and their reaction to us! "You’re using narcotics? You’re an addict!" This does not come from any federal agency. It stems from a lack of education and understanding about WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE US! If we had society on our side, the fed’s would soon follow – trying to get the government to change, without addressing the governed, may be futile. Don’t get me wrong: I’m all for the march. But there’s this larger march. If a few of you disagree, then I’ll re-think my views entirely and get back with the band! Maybe I had too much coffee today. Or not enough! Just remember that I’m one of you and that I’m on your side regardless. – jqt –
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In article < I do know that I went many years when I was younger with no med’s, and my life was utterly terrible. Now, while I may complain, at least I get some pain medication.
John, Very similar to the story of my life, I’ve been suffering from severe headaches for 31 years and I spent the first 20 with no meds, people may say that I have a vicious imagination but I only started to be treated as a human being and given meds when I started paying taxes, raising my voice when talking with the docs and demanding my meds. *g* coincidence? I dunno…. peace Mario
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snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps! WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing.
I didn’t see the original post in its entirety, due to it having been cross-posted, but… It is probably about counting the pain pills to last the month. I’ve been doing it for years, often on the verge of suicide. Basically, there are state and federal pharmacological board laws, and insurance laws. You juggle them both, and pray that you come out alive on the other side. You don’t want to know more…do you? - jqt –
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My pain-management doc (he was not treating my HA pain, BTW) also told me that he would not increase my narcotic doseages (to compensate for tolerance) beyond a certain point because he did not want to come under scrutiny for "over-prescribing." It was clear that he believed I could use the higher doseage, but he was not willing to risk his license for my unusally high tolerance. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I kind of think an additional reason might be fear of lawsuits. My doctors keep saying they want to avoid addiction and rebounds. Add that to government controls and lack of ability to understand our very real pain and you get nothing! My doctor came right out and told me that were it not for the restrictions that Kaiser puts on her (their protocols for certain diseases) and the medical board and dea breathing down the doctors necks she would be treatin all my problems differently…and I might also be working Karen
– John Martinez "I have a plastic laminated ID card, therefore I am." Remove the nojunk to get my address or URL. Visit our humble home page at http://www.primenet.com/~nojunkmmart/index.html
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Diane are you in the projection room again… :) Ronnie Queen Of Hugs
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I kind of think an additional reason might be fear of lawsuits. My doctors keep saying they want to avoid addiction and rebounds. Add that to government controls and lack of ability to understand our very real pain and you get nothing!
My doctor came right out and told me that were it not for the restrictions that Kaiser puts on her (their protocols for certain diseases) and the medical board and dea breathing down the doctors necks she would be treatin all my problems differently…and I might also be working Karen
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snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps!
WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing. — http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html D/FW Assault Crew, West Coast Chapter ICQ # 11867927
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Carey’s email address ends in .ca, so she must be referring to Canadian law. diane I see this is cross-posted and since I don’t know who is where, I also cross-posted my response. My email address has been altered to prevent spam. I am on ashm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I questioned that also when I read it. I have never heard of "maximum allowed by law" concerning prescription meds nor has my (retired) anesthesiologist husband. Carey, would you please explain to the rest of us what you meant? Ann snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps! WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing. — http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html D/FW Assault Crew, West Coast Chapter ICQ # 11867927
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I questioned that also when I read it. I have never heard of "maximum allowed by law" concerning prescription meds nor has my (retired) anesthesiologist husband. Carey, would you please explain to the rest of us what you meant? Ann – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps! WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing. — http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html D/FW Assault Crew, West Coast Chapter ICQ # 11867927
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps! WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing. — http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html D/FW Assault Crew, West Coast Chapter ICQ # 11867927 as rediculous as it is I came face to face with it today. My legs are very bad right now with the fibro so I asked the doctor if I could up my flexeril or switch or somthing and she said no that I am taking the maximum dose they allow it happens Karen
Karen,Sorry the fibro is acting up to the point of needing addition doses. According to the PDR, the usual doseage of Flexeril is 10 mg 3x’s a day, with a range of 20-40 mg. a day in divided doses. Dosage should not exceed 60 mg per day. Use of Flexeril for periods longer than two to three weeks is not recommended. I was using Flexeril (Cyclobenzaprine HCI) for close to a year as a migraine preventative without serious side-effects or success, but this is just *my* personal HA medication experience. Mary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snip He is on the maximum amount allowed by law. It was the diary that helped the doc take him more seriously. I hope this helps! WHATTHEFUCK is this about?????? It seems ridiculous that there is such a thing. — http://www.fishnet.net/~mrsunshine/healthzone.html D/FW Assault Crew, West Coast Chapter ICQ # 11867927
as rediculous as it is I came face to face with it today. My legs are very bad right now with the fibro so I asked the doctor if I could up my flexeril or switch or somthing and she said no that I am taking the maximum dose they allow it happens Karen
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